Rules question for Ground Hog Match Shooters

[dreever]

This is just a question, so please don't get your panties bunched up unnecessarily just yet. I know opinions run hot and heavy anytime the factory classes are mentioned.

With the new crop of Savages coming out, specifically the competition oriented models with trick stocks,semi custom barrels, and 6 ounce triggers do you think they should fairly fall in the factory class? If yes, should the rules then be revised to include the previously banned semi customs like the Remington 40X and the Coopers?

There won't be any rule changes this year at any of the ranges, but what about next year? What does constitute a factory rifle since the water is becoming pretty muddy with all the new offerings.

Danny

 

[mikecr]

What is the BASIS for a factory class anyway?
There are factory barrels that shoot great, as well as any other. But if someone can build a better mousetrap, they should not be shut out.

To solve ALL issues, the equipment rules should really go away, except one -weight.
Push for an open class in a carry rifle weight, like ~9lbs. Or 8lbs..No matter what someone puts together within this weight works, factory trim or cutting edge.
Right?
Put together a custom under 9lbs total, and see if you can do better than the gunmakers out there..See if you can hang with that 1 in 100 Remington that kicks butt for some reason.
Afterall, these are the only guns that should be competing anyway. The best of the best

 

[steveyrock]

Factory guns shoot 1 2 and 300 yds or meters depending where the match is held if the shooter enters the gun in factory class.Custom limited and unlimited guns shoot 2 3 and 500 yds, or meters.These classes are determined by the guns weight.

My feelings are do away with the weight classes and just keep it to factory and custom with no weight limits.

 

[dreever]

Stevey,

At Shippensburg factory and custom shoot the same yardages. 200/300/500 meters.
The guys seem to like the two custom classes since some shoot both classes.
Myself, I prefer the Heavy Custom class and would shoot it even if my gun made light weight since there are no arguments there, it's "Run what you Brung!"
There's always some controversery in factory class which as a Match Director you have to deal with. That's why I posted this question since the 40X and Cooper owners think they are no different than the new crop of Savages, and the Sako TRG and should be allowed back in factory class.
So what do you do??????

Danny

 

[steveyrock]

I see your dilemma Danny and there is no easy solution if the Savage's can run with Coopers.I know some stock Savage's will shoot real good but was not aware the accuracy of the new models was aproaching that of Cooper and Sako per gun produced.

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

I wonder if they really feared the rifles or did they fear the cartridges..6 PPC and 6 BR ?? I think it's the later..in 100-200-300 competition it would be EXTREMELY difficult for the standard hunting cartridges to defeat them, EXTREMELY !!! We've banned the cartridges but have no rule on the rifles for the most part....haven't had one of the new model show up yet, guess we'll have a "MEETIN'" when that occurs...

 

[dreever]

Frank,

I think it was the cartridges and I still think the rule should be cartridges must be commercially manufactured by the big three, Winchester, Remington, and Federal. That would rule out the 6BR, 6PPC, and 6.5X284. Other than that let them all compete as factory.

Danny

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

That's what we did also, guess we'll have to make another change when one of those 3 makes a factory BR..which may happen by the looks of things.....

 

[Bugs]

My 14 year old nephew will be shooting my newly acquired Savage precision varminter,Right-left) .223 this Saturday at Mifflin County. Not a lot of experience with this rig just yet but it sure isn't a Cooper. Be interesting to see if the rifle raises any eyebrows. . . . .

 

[dreever]

Ceiling price: Is that suggested retail advertised by the manufacturer of the rifle or street price? You just eliminated a lot of rifles, including the three new Savages.
Does that include optics? There are a lot of factory rifles out there equipped with Nightforces. Throw in a set of Badger rings and mounts and you now have a rifle that's pushing $3000.
You must sell your rifle or be DQ'd forever? Seems unrealistic to me.
There will always be someone complaining about the inequities of factory class. Those with money can afford the very best. A Sako TRG with a 12-42 NXS in Badger rings and mounts is a $4500+ rig. Should that guy be DQ'd on money and you then let someone with the new Savage 308 with a semi custom factory stock and semi custom factory barrel with a 6 ounce factory trigger compete with the same optics just because his rifle only cost $3000+? In fact we may be unfairly judging that guy with the Sako. What if you have two different competitors. The first owns three factory rifles, a Savage,Remington, and a Winchester, all with Weaver and leupoold scopes. The other guy only owns one factory rifle, the aforementioned Sako TRG. He chose to put his money into one rifle with the best components verses the other guy with three rifles but BOTH of them have basically invested the same amount of money. They both made their choices so who's to say we don't allow the one, but allow the other?
My opinion is if it's a factory production rifle that anyone can buy then you allow it regardless of price. Same for Optics etc. Do you allow a Leupold 45X since it's under $1K and disallow a Nightforce since it's $1350?
The only fair way is to require that the rifle be chambered for factory available loaded ammunition manufactured by the big three,Winchester, Remington, Federal) which eliminates the BR's,6.5X284, 6PPC, 6.5X47, etc. But what happens when one of those big three starts producing one of those cartridges?

Factory class is a nightmare for a match director and rules committee. Especially when it comes to enforcement. How many Remington 700's out there have Jewell triggers that slip by every match? Do you DQ a Savage that has had it's barrel replaced with another Savage barrel? It isn't the original. What about a re crowning? The list goes on and on.
These are questions that are dealt with by match directors and rules committee's every year and at every shoot. You can't make everybody happy in factory class.
That's the great thing about custom classes where weight is the only dividing issue. There isn't the constant controversy of the factory classes.
The biggest bitch in the custom classes is in regard to muzzle brakes. Some hate them, especially those who have to shoot beside them, some love them. I'm of the "I hate em" camp, but they are allowed so I grudgeningly accept having to shoot beside them.

Danny

 

[steveyrock]

how many factory guns sneak in to a match that had their barrels set back a bit with a match chamber { minimum specs } ?

 

[FrankintheLaurelMts]

Should not be any if the range master checks the gap that will be created were the reciever and the barrel meet..also the marks, proof in general better be in the right place...also the range master should take a look up in the trigger area if theres any question...there is no way that I've ever seen to hide the barrel gap that's created because all factory gun have a tapered barrel...it should be tight..

 

[mattc]

rules from mifflin


A. Factory Sporter/Varmint Class:

1. A FACTORY RIFLE is one that has its entire original factory or the manufacturing factory replaced components and of a caliber that FACTORY produced ammunition can be purchased. “Any caliber that an individual can buy from the ammunition companies of Federal, Remington or Winchester is permitted in the “FACTORY SPORTER/VARMINT CLASS”. “All other calibers will need to shoot in the Custom Factory Class.

2. For this class the only modifications to the firearm that will be accepted are as follows:

a. Re-crowing of the barrel.
b. Rebluing.
c. Refinishing the stock as long as the basic factory shape has not been altered to fit your front and back rests etc.
d. Bedding of the action and barrel.
e. Factory triggers may be adjusted down to a minimum of 1 lb. pull. No after market triggers allowed.
f. NO OTHER CHANGES WILL BE ACCEPTED FOR THE “FACTORY
SPORTER/VARMIT CLASS. ANY OTHER CHANGES WILL PUT THE RIFLE IN THE “CUSTOM


south fork rules


Factory Varmint – Rifle must be original factory varmint. Barrel, stock and action must be original. No modifications or accurizing except stock bedding or trigger work, safety must work. Any power scope allowed.
Rifles must be common mass produced in both factory classes, certain rifles will be classed as Unlimited, i.e. Rem 40x, Cooper. Match Director will determine questionable rifles CHECK WITH HIM BEFORE YOU DECIDE ON A RIFLE IN THE


I don't see how bending the rules for bedding and re crowing has to do with factory class.

The factory class should be the easiest to determined what class it should be in. You guys make it hard with the rules you have. Its this easy If its the way it came from the factory well then its factory. If not then put them somewhere else.

You will always have ppl that will cheat and not tell the truth anyway.

Just to ask. Do the guns that win get looked at by the match director ?


matt

 

[steveyrock]

Hi Matt
I think it goes pretty much on the honor system but I would think if a factory gun shows up at several matches and wins overwhelmingly with exceptional target grouping someone would get suspicious.

payouts are nice but what satisfaction is there in cheating at an event like these? Winning by cheating is nothing.

 

[mikecr]

I still believe there is no basis at all for 'factory' class. This is why it will always be a nightmare.

The only fair, enforcable limit, is weight.
If you want competition with rifles which might actually be used for hunting, set an appropriate weight limit. This will take care of every issue with one rule.

And why shouldn't 6ppc be allowed? If big rifle makers want respect that comes with competition, they'll offer 6ppc, 6br, 6.5-284. If they don't care, why should we?

As far as value limit, that's rediculous.
Next someone will want any gun certified,through voting I guess) as a POS, before it's allowed to compete against equally crappy guns! Yeah... That's competition you want to get into...Real satisfaction there.

 

[dreever]

A big problem for ranges that host matches is lack of help. Everybody wants to shoot, but nobody wants to help. Compound this by now having to have a knowledgeable person to inspect factory guns and that just ads another chore to an already overloaded match committee which usually numbers three persons on the average. One person spends their day with registration, scoring targets and tabulating results. The other two take turns at running the firing line and setting targets with perhaps the opportunity to shoot one gun each, which is usually a rush to the line after setting targets affair. I know I don't need another chore to add to my already overworked match day.
At our matches factory class is really falling off, with the majority of competitors competing in the custom classes.
It's a shame really, because factory is usually where the young blood starts out.

Danny