Rule Question: Switching rifles and Fclass

[skiutah02]

I completed a two-day match this past weekend and switched rifles between the days. I made the match director aware of this at the end of the 1st day. He indicated no problem. I was shooting FTR.

After the match I received a friendly "heads-up" about the rule 9.1.1 (in the Highpower section) about voluntarily switching rifles and that scores shot before the switch CANNOT be counted toward the aggregate match score. However,

In the Fclass section there is a similar rule 9.1 that indicates that changing rifles is allowed between matches even if used in an aggregate match. There is parallel language in both 9.1 sections, but since there is not specifically a 9.1.1 section in the FClass part, it does appear that rule 9.1.1 for HP might be in play.

I did medal based upon my Agg score so there is that bothering me. Plus, as Nationals approach, it might be good for some clarity.

So, what is the rule? While it is clear that you can switch rifles between matches, how are aggregate scores handled in FClass when you do?

Thanks, inquiring minds what to know.

Drew Rutherford

 

[saunaking]

I completed a two-day match this past weekend and switched rifles between the days. I made the match director aware of this at the end of the 1st day. He indicated no problem. I was shooting FTR.

After the match I received a friendly "heads-up" about the rule 9.1.1 (in the Highpower section) about voluntarily switching rifles and that scores shot before the switch CANNOT be counted toward the aggregate match score. However,

In the Fclass section there is a similar rule 9.1 that indicates that changing rifles is allowed between matches even if used in an aggregate match. There is parallel language in both 9.1 sections, but since there is not specifically a 9.1.1 section in the FClass part, it does appear that rule 9.1.1 for HP might be in play.

I did medal based upon my Agg score so there is that bothering me. Plus, as Nationals approach, it might be good for some clarity.

So, what is the rule? While it is clear that you can switch rifles between matches, how are aggregate scores handled in FClass when you do?

Thanks, inquiring minds what to know.

Drew Rutherford

Drew -
Jon did some research after this came up in the match:
From the NRA rulebook:



9.1 Changing Rifle––A competitor may change rifles to another of the same or different caliber only between fired matches or between stages of a multiple stage match even if these stages are included in an aggregate match. A competitor may not change his or her rifle during the firing of a single stage unless it has become disabled and has so been designated by the Chief Range Officer. For the purpose of this rule, the firing of a stage is considered to have started when the competitor has fired his or her first record shot. A claim that a rifle is disabled must be made immediately. All shots fired up to the time of the claim is made will stand as part of the official score. (See Rules 10.9 and 10.10.)

According to this (and it may be specific to F-class) you can switch rifles between matches and it will count towards your ag.

 

[skiutah02]

Drew -
Jon did some research after this came up in the match:
From the NRA rulebook:



9.1 Changing Rifle––A competitor may change rifles to another of the same or different caliber only between fired matches or between stages of a multiple stage match even if these stages are included in an aggregate match. A competitor may not change his or her rifle during the firing of a single stage unless it has become disabled and has so been designated by the Chief Range Officer. For the purpose of this rule, the firing of a stage is considered to have started when the competitor has fired his or her first record shot. A claim that a rifle is disabled must be made immediately. All shots fired up to the time of the claim is made will stand as part of the official score. (See Rules 10.9 and 10.10.)

According to this (and it may be specific to F-class) you can switch rifles between matches and it will count towards your ag.

Yep, I read that, but my question still kinda remains. Since there is no 9.1.1 rule in Fclass, one might conclude 9.1.1 from HP is still in force. Right?

Fclass 9.1 substitutes HP 9.1 but what about 9.1.1?

I agree that I've always thought it fine to switch, but would rather know for sure.

Great match by the way!

 

[FatBoy]

This has been an issue for years the we address in our match program when submitted to the NRA stating "Rule 9.1, as it pertains to switching rifles between matches, does not apply."

If the match program doesn't specifically include this you must get clarification from the match director at the directors briefing before the match, when they name the jury members or introduce the ref. When asked the match director can clarify the intent on the spot and any challange can immediately be brought to the jury and decided upon before shot #1 is fired.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Drew -
Jon did some research after this came up in the match:
From the NRA rulebook:



9.1 Changing Rifle––A competitor may change rifles to another of the same or different caliber only between fired matches or between stages of a multiple stage match even if these stages are included in an aggregate match. A competitor may not change his or her rifle during the firing of a single stage unless it has become disabled and has so been designated by the Chief Range Officer. For the purpose of this rule, the firing of a stage is considered to have started when the competitor has fired his or her first record shot. A claim that a rifle is disabled must be made immediately. All shots fired up to the time of the claim is made will stand as part of the official score. (See Rules 10.9 and 10.10.)

According to this (and it may be specific to F-class) you can switch rifles between matches and it will count towards your ag.

Saunaking, do you know where that revised rule is published? I had heard the rule had changed to allow switching rifles without affecting the agg, but the document at the NRA rulebook site still shows it as invalidating the aggregate:

http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

And that doc says revised as of January 2016 so somewhat recent.

I like the idea of being able to switch rifles between matches so would like to find a published version of that rule change.

 

[skiutah02]

Saunaking, do you know where that revised rule is published? I had heard the rule had changed to allow switching rifles without affecting the agg, but the document at the NRA rulebook site still shows it as invalidating the aggregate:

http://rulebooks.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

And that doc says revised as of January 2016 so somewhat recent.

I like the idea of being able to switch rifles between matches so would like to find a published version of that rule change.

Fredrik,

The passage that saunaking is referencing is in the Jan 2016 HP Rule book. Look in the F-Class chapter, Chapter 22, Rule 9.1.

Not sure if this is the "revised rule" you are seeking, but took a shot.

 

[JFM33]

I could be wrong but I was told in F-class it was ok to switch rifles,some do it on different yard lines in the same days matches. When shooting sling it has to say rule 9.1 won't be enforced otherwise it won't count if you switch rifles.
John

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Fredrik,

The passage that saunaking is referencing is in the Jan 2016 HP Rule book. Look in the F-Class chapter, Chapter 22, Rule 9.1.

Not sure if this is the "revised rule" you are seeking, but took a shot.

Thanks Drew, much appreciated

 

[mysticplayer]

I remember it this way... when I "go on score", 1 rifle unless it breaks and verified by RO that it can't continue. If the accuracy is poor, too bad.. you can't switch.

Between relays/matches, I can switched rifles if desired.

Jerry

 

[Baka]

I completed a two-day match this past weekend and switched rifles between the days. I made the match director aware of this at the end of the 1st day. He indicated no problem. I was shooting FTR.

After the match I received a friendly "heads-up" about the rule 9.1.1 (in the Highpower section) about voluntarily switching rifles and that scores shot before the switch CANNOT be counted toward the aggregate match score. However,

In the Fclass section there is a similar rule 9.1 that indicates that changing rifles is allowed between matches even if used in an aggregate match. There is parallel language in both 9.1 sections, but since there is not specifically a 9.1.1 section in the FClass part, it does appear that rule 9.1.1 for HP might be in play.

I did medal based upon my Agg score so there is that bothering me. Plus, as Nationals approach, it might be good for some clarity.

So, what is the rule? While it is clear that you can switch rifles between matches, how are aggregate scores handled in FClass when you do?

Thanks, inquiring minds what to know.

Drew Rutherford

Quit with the questions Drew I'm confused enough the way it is!

 

[saunaking]

Quit with the questions Drew I'm confused enough the way it is!

Drew -
I hope you are close enough to Chris in Nebraska to make sure he shoots on the right target.

 

[skiutah02]

Drew -
I hope you are close enough to Chris in Nebraska to make sure he shoots on the right target.

I'm sure Chris will not be on the wrong target again for quite awhile. That had to get the blood pumping, right @remdog. While I feel stupid "reminding" shooters what target they are on during prep time, it's times like that that make me feel better about continuing to do it.

 

[KarinL]

Gentlemen (Jerry is exactly right)

I would like to state what the rule is and where to find it. In the 2016 revised rulebook under Section 22, F Class Rifle Rules, rule 9.1 states the following:

Changing Rifle - A competitor may change rifles to another of the same or different caliber only between fired matches or between stages of a multiple stage match even if these stages are included in an aggregate match. A competitor may not change his or her rifle during the firing of a single stage unless it has become disabled and has so been designated by the Chief Range Officer. For the purpose of this rule, the firing of a stage is considered to have started when the competitor has fired his or her first record shot. A claim that a rifle is disabled must be made immediately. All shots fired up to the time of the claim is made will stand as part of the official score (See Rules 10.9 and 10.10).

I want to assure you that you can change your rifle between stages or matches and still be included in the aggregate. You cannot voluntarily change your rifle in the middle of a stage or match without it first being declared disabled by the Chief Range Officer.

I hope this clears up the questions and confusion.

Earl Liebetrau
Chief Referee 2016 NRA National Championships
High Power Rifle Committee member

 

[skiutah02]

Gentlemen (Jerry is exactly right)

I would like to state what the rule is and where to find it. In the 2016 revised rulebook under Section 22, F Class Rifle Rules, rule 9.1 states the following:

Changing Rifle - A competitor may change rifles to another of the same or different caliber only between fired matches or between stages of a multiple stage match even if these stages are included in an aggregate match. A competitor may not change his or her rifle during the firing of a single stage unless it has become disabled and has so been designated by the Chief Range Officer. For the purpose of this rule, the firing of a stage is considered to have started when the competitor has fired his or her first record shot. A claim that a rifle is disabled must be made immediately. All shots fired up to the time of the claim is made will stand as part of the official score (See Rules 10.9 and 10.10).

I want to assure you that you can change your rifle between stages or matches and still be included in the aggregate. You cannot voluntarily change your rifle in the middle of a stage or match without it first being declared disabled by the Chief Range Officer.

I hope this clears up the questions and confusion.

Earl Liebetrau
Chief Referee 2016 NRA National Championships
High Power Rifle Committee member

Now THIS is the definitive reply I was looking for. Thanks, Earl

 

[Ned Ludd]

Nothing like getting the answer right from the top! Good to know.