Ruger and Beretta

[nakneker]

Love Ruger or hate Ruger they are an American firearms icon. I’d hate to see them be owned by a foreign entity. We’ve already lost too many.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Love Ruger or hate Ruger they are an American firearms icon. I’d hate to see them be owned by a foreign entity. We’ve already lost too many.

They won the war.

Never fired a shot.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I'll stick with a rifle that friends can make the parts for or put a rifle together from parts made by other individuals that make the parts here in the USA. And get a rifle that suits my needs instead of the needs that suit a bunch of share holders. My last four rifle have been put together. I do like the Ruger CHF barrels for a hunting rifle. The single action pistols are still good? Just need to adapt to what's going on because it's not like it's a new thing. Anyone that wants' a serious target rifle is not worried.

 

[GetReal]

Somebody other than Ruger needs to run Ruger because Ruger has ruined Ruger.

For me anyway.

Ruger even managed to screw up a full auto 223.

 

[GetReal]

The worlds least desirable firearms:

Ruger Mark I, 2 & 3 ( only MK 4 is tolerable).

Ruger P95

Ruger AC556

Ruger 10/22 ( until you spend 3x more on modifications and upgrades than the cost of the original rifle )

Ruger Politically Correct carbine

Ruger PC Charger

Ruger 77 series

Ruger LCP

Ruger Mini 14 / 30

Ruger American Rifle ( in any caliber)

 

[Doug Casner]

I got alot of guns on that list I kinda like. Doug

 

[Krogen]

Okay, I have no idea where this $12 million number is coming from. As of this moment the market cap for Ruger is $617.5 MILLION. Maybe they have $12 in a reserve account but I seriously doubt they are "in trouble". The current market cap for Smith & Wesson, who I would think has more cash flow issues the Ruger, is currently $622.4 million. True, Ruger's stock price certainly has declined greatly over its highest value but they have reduced operating expenses (difficult to do) and their gross sales is still high enough to be profitable.
It may be (and this does happen) that Beretta is throwing out numbers like that 12M to try to skew the public just why Ruger needs "taken over".

I pointed this out above. It's public information published on the Morningstar site.

 

[Dos XX]

Bill Ruger was a proponent for limiting magazine capacity.

That said, Ruger does take care of their product in a no BS manner. I have experienced it twice with Super Redhawks that I acquired second hand, and told them that I acquired them second hand. They made both of them as new and sent them back to me at no charge even though I offered to pay for the repair.

 

[charlie b]

Okay, I have no idea where this $12 million number is coming from. As of this moment the market cap for Ruger is $617.5 MILLION. Maybe they have $12 in a reserve account but I seriously doubt they are "in trouble". The current market cap for Smith & Wesson, who I would think has more cash flow issues the Ruger, is currently $622.4 million. True, Ruger's stock price certainly has declined greatly over its highest value but they have reduced operating expenses (difficult to do) and their gross sales is still high enough to be profitable.
It may be (and this does happen) that Beretta is throwing out numbers like that 12M to try to skew the public just why Ruger needs "taken over".

The Morningstar report numbers I listed were not the "market cap", they were profit numbers. Not from Beretta.

Market cap is directly tied to stock value (IIRC), influenced by but not directly tied to profit. Stock value is affected by things like capital assets, cash on hand, and overall view of stock investors. Many investors will drive stock prices based on things other than current profits, such as changes in political structure or pending legislation.

If I want to know how a company is doing the stock market is probably my last point of reference. I'll look at the past several years of gross sales, operating costs, acquisitions, cash on hand, capital assets, pending lawsuits, etc. Then look at what I think the potential for future sales are and if any other acquisitions are on the horizon. I might factor in things like union issues or changes in states where they have mfg plants.

 

[shoot4fun]

During my time in the firearms industry there were two huge runs caused by Obama in 2008 and Sandy Hook in 2012 IIRC. Other than that the industry has not seen brisk sales. Even things that were thought would charge the market have failed to do so. I don't expect to see "the good old days" for quite a while. Expectations, while lower, I think will improve. When we do a deep dive into, say, Glock, the private makers seem to be driven by what customers want instead of what Wall Street demands.

 

[Knotwild]

In reguard to shoot to fun’s post, I agree. I add to that the fact that due to inflation, my comfortable retirement is now barely able to maintain life. So I’m not buying much at all. No extra ammo, using my hoarded powder and bullets, etc. So it’s getting to a point where I don’t give a defication about Berreta, Ruger, Remington, Savage, Browning, FN, and etc. I’ve wanted a 222 that really shoots - I’ll find a smith close enough to drive to and pay a knowlegable hardworking man his fee.

Debt and ignorant politicians are quickly changing us into a third world country. And the stock market and industry that supplies us is now value based on accounting tricks and no longer on a sound reliable and competitive product. I’m through carrying plastic bags to pick up their piles of crap.

And that’s the rest of the story.

 

[rdremsek]

It's hard to see this. Ruger wasn't my first choice over the years but the general consensus with their customer support is that it is top-shelf. With that said, Ruger seems to have been killing it lately in their offerings. Ruger/Marlin levers have been a hit; The American Gen IIs seems to be feature rich and the MKIVs with their quick disassembly seem to have hit a need. What didn't make sense to me was Ruger recently acquiring Anderson. The AR-15 market seems beyond saturated. I hope they can weather the Beretta storm....They are a large, storied organization. Customer support does not seem to be their niche.

Customer support is great I have dealt with ruger in the past and there customer service is above and beyond

 

[ebb]

The thing I don't like about Rugers is the versions, the mini14 is on it's 3rd or 4th version. If you have an early version they are not supported with parts. Design something and get it right the first time. The bolt was redesigned on the 77 now there is 2 versions. Get Real points out that there is 4 versions on the semi auto pistol, there isn't a MK1, it's the standard but he's right and who knows which mags fit the others? There are 2 versions of the American rifle. And on and on. get it right and leave it alone. They are like Ford or GM, something changed all the time and a parts nightmare.

 

[GetReal]

The thing I don't like about Rugers is the versions, ... there is 4 versions on the semi auto pistol, there isn't a MK1

Ruger sort of got it finally right on the MK4, with the previous three versions being very easy to totally lock up if you assembled or disassembled it in the wrong way.

I got to think either their Engineers didn't know much about making their pistols user serviceable, or they intentionally made them very very difficult for user Servicing. Even for full disassembly for cleaning.

Along with his magazine capacity limitations, Bill Ruger should exist in infamy for that. A pox on both of his houses !

Like you pt out... numerous Rugers are just substandard in design and features as compared to the rest of the market. Shoot, Ruger created an entire industry of turning the 10/22 into a usable product. Not sure if Id choose a Ruger over a rock for any life essential task. TdK both totally revised the 10/22, and made the Mark 1/2/3 what it always should have been from the beginning I am negatively disposed toward most Rugers ( except their wheelguns, which are quite good.)

And I believe Bill Ruger agreed with me.

I hope Beretta or someone DOES buy Ruger out. The firearms world would be better off for it.

 

[rockhound78]

Love my MK1. Over 10K thru it, no problems
One of my #1's , different story. It has a failure to fire about 70% of the time. Measured breechblock and thought one hole was drilled a bit off. Sent to Ruger to check it out and get breechblock repaired/replaced. Ruger said gun was within specs. Still mis-fired (non-fired). Pulled breechblock off another #1 and put in rifle Gun fires every time. Only Ruger I have had problems with.

 

[shoot4fun]

Ruger sort of got it finally right on the MK4, with the previous three versions being very easy to totally lock up if you assembled or disassembled it in the wrong way.

I got to think either their Engineers didn't know much about making their pistols user serviceable, or they intentionally made them very very difficult for user Servicing. Even for full disassembly for cleaning.

Along with his magazine capacity limitations, Bill Ruger should exist in infamy for that. A pox on both of his houses !

Like you pt out... numerous Rugers are just substandard in design and features as compared to the rest of the market. Shoot, Ruger created an entire industry of turning the 10/22 into a usable product. Not sure if Id choose a Ruger over a rock for any life essential task. TdK both totally revised the 10/22, and made the Mark 1/2/3 what it always should have been from the beginning I am negatively disposed toward most Rugers ( except their wheelguns, which are quite good.)

And I believe Bill Ruger agreed with me.

I hope Beretta or someone DOES buy Ruger out. The firearms world would be better off for it.

To your first point, the S&W Victory got it right before Ruger decided to "fix" it. Simple take down on the Victory and it will (at least mine)out shoot every Ruger MK version I ever owned.
Second, they have been known in the industry for "robbing" other manufacturers engineers. Usually, along with the engineer, they got the projects he worked on. Ruger has had more manufacturing capacity than most others and they have been able to get to market much quicker.
Yes, Bill wasn't a true champion of 2A but when he left the new leaders became quite adept at introducing black guns and hiccup products, supporting 2A and adapting to what customers wanted (or making them want it).
I own a Ruger RPR Rimfire. It shoots very well and I made a couple "updates". In making those updates I found some of the worst looking manufactured parts I have seen (even on very low end firearms). But, bottom line is the dang thing shoots!
Your view of how the firearms industry would be better with Ruger having a new owner is not at all mine. Qualified by stating not better with an off-shore owner.

 

[GetReal]

@shoot4fun ... that 22 Victory is stellar. Yeah... yer right abt foreign ownership of Ruger. Not good.

Here's my former collection which will tell you what I found that works:



That's a Vudoo Gun Works kit on a Springfield 1911 frame. I kept the Vudoo and the Taurus, got rid of the other two but I just ordered a 1911 based Chet Whistle ( now Precision Defense) 22 Rimfire race gun

 

[Doug Casner]

I dont think any big gun companies put out a complete product . Got a 700 rem. 3006 cdl had to freefloat the forearm with a dremel to get it to shoot. Shot .5 in. groups with it. Used to shoot 2.5in. groups and its a custom deluxe. Doug

 

[DGP4]

Sounds like Beretta is run by the Mafia!

We invented the hostile takeover in the 1980s, so don't blame the mafia or cossa nostra. Current Ruger management has run the company down from very healthy quarterly profit a few years back to a quarterly loss in the last reported period. Stock price is down 40% in the last 5 years. Beretta, on the other hand, has been run profitably by the same family for 500 years. Hard to see how Ruger is anything but a wounded pigeon being swooped down on by a hungry hawk.

 

[Adam in WI]

Shoot, Ruger created an entire industry of turning the 10/22 into a usable product.

Horrible take. Is the AR-15 unusable? The Remington 700? The 1911? When you have a massively popular product that's easy to customize, people are going to customize it. I don't know how many thousands of rounds our 10/22s went through as kids before I ever turned a screw on it and then it was only because I wanted to; not because there was anything inherently wrong with it. Consider how many other companies have borrowed its magazine design, or outright copied the 10/22. It's literally one of only a handful of civilian market designs that's been in production so long other companies just started making knockoffs.