I guess its like a Ford Vs Chevy etc. thing. Want to hear something funny I would rarely buy a Remington, I was just sick of seeing them. Always liked the Ruger's, and now the Savage's suit me. Beware the underdog. :
Ruger action for F-Class?
- Thread starter 15Tango
- Start date
I have Remington's, but they are all pre-1980. Just too many issues for me to feel good about buying them today when I have had such great success with Savages. Plenty of great after market accessories too and growing everyday. Popularity sure helps in that respect
If I wanted a custom gun I would build one, but for out of the box, I think Savage is really an easy choice, plus I can work on them and change barrels without need of a smith! Great barrels pre-fit for the Savages from Shilen, Benchmark just to name a couple.
If I wanted a custom gun I would build one, but for out of the box, I think Savage is really an easy choice, plus I can work on them and change barrels without need of a smith! Great barrels pre-fit for the Savages from Shilen, Benchmark just to name a couple.
Brad,
That's wonderful you're doing that well with it. A 105 VLD at 3030 FPS is nothing to sneeze at, it's only 150 FPS short of a .243 but in a better cartridge. Thanks for something to ponder, I think I"ll have to go with a 6T40 or RAT before the BRX though, I've only seen 1 guy that's making anything for ARs in the BR/BRX and it looked like it was in a testing phase still using questionable mags. Nothing at all against the BRX, I'd rather have that truthfully but if I have to do it in an AR I'll have to go with the PPC bolt face stuff for now. Maybe I'll have to think about the BRX for this Ruger if I end up doing a project with it (if I don't sell it and move on).
Mike, Savage certainly has aftermarket support, I'll give them that. Hell, go on Midway and you'll see them in the gunsmith section along with AR15s and Remington, Ruger's in there as well but mostly for 10/22s and OE replacement type parts for their other stuff.
Wayne
That's wonderful you're doing that well with it. A 105 VLD at 3030 FPS is nothing to sneeze at, it's only 150 FPS short of a .243 but in a better cartridge. Thanks for something to ponder, I think I"ll have to go with a 6T40 or RAT before the BRX though, I've only seen 1 guy that's making anything for ARs in the BR/BRX and it looked like it was in a testing phase still using questionable mags. Nothing at all against the BRX, I'd rather have that truthfully but if I have to do it in an AR I'll have to go with the PPC bolt face stuff for now. Maybe I'll have to think about the BRX for this Ruger if I end up doing a project with it (if I don't sell it and move on).
Mike, Savage certainly has aftermarket support, I'll give them that. Hell, go on Midway and you'll see them in the gunsmith section along with AR15s and Remington, Ruger's in there as well but mostly for 10/22s and OE replacement type parts for their other stuff.
Wayne
Shot with members of Team U.S. at the 2010 Canadian Fullbore Championships last August. Some were members of Team Savage. Great bunch of guys.
I would have to say that one of my greater disappointments in the past few years was buying a Ruger .308 M77 Mk II Target rifle as a backup F/TR rifle. Should have learned my lesson with a Karl Gustav .308 Palma rifle in the 1980`s.
The long narrow rear Mauser `98 tang is the problem. On recoil the action torques aroung the recoil lug and compresses the wood under the rear tang. The laminated wood in the Ruger stock could not stand up to the torque. No way the action screws could be kept tight. Wood kept compressing.
Have owned other Ruger bolt actions, 7x57, .257 Roberts. Just never got the accuracy that I thought they should deliver.
Have to say for F(O) and F/TR builds, got to go with a round bottom action, Savage or Rem 700. Blueprint the Rems. Both my `smiths say they have never seen a square 700.
I would have to say that one of my greater disappointments in the past few years was buying a Ruger .308 M77 Mk II Target rifle as a backup F/TR rifle. Should have learned my lesson with a Karl Gustav .308 Palma rifle in the 1980`s.
The long narrow rear Mauser `98 tang is the problem. On recoil the action torques aroung the recoil lug and compresses the wood under the rear tang. The laminated wood in the Ruger stock could not stand up to the torque. No way the action screws could be kept tight. Wood kept compressing.
Have owned other Ruger bolt actions, 7x57, .257 Roberts. Just never got the accuracy that I thought they should deliver.
Have to say for F(O) and F/TR builds, got to go with a round bottom action, Savage or Rem 700. Blueprint the Rems. Both my `smiths say they have never seen a square 700.
Tango. It looks like this post turned into a 'shooten match' of it own. I say whatever 'flys up your skirt'... go for it! I have owned several Rugers and Remingtons over the years. I love them both. I have never built a true F-class gun,but I have tinkered with any rifle I have owned to get it to perform,,always trying for the one hole group. My Rugers and Remmys have given me great pleasure..........then,,,,,,, I bought one of those BUTT- UGLY SAVAGES! I tinkered with the bedding, trigger, rebarreling,,etc. My results were so dissappointing! The Savage outshoots anything I have owned to date. Last fall I bought another Savage only to find that dumb thing shoots well, too. Both those Savages shoot well enough for F-class shooting. (I have shot several 600 yard fun matches that made me feel like a pro) The beauty of it is, I have $600 in one of them and $500 in the other. (I bought them used)
I still defend the Rugers and Remmys,,,,my love runs deep......Thus my name "RAVAGE"
Terry
I still defend the Rugers and Remmys,,,,my love runs deep......Thus my name "RAVAGE"
Terry
Terry,
I'm hearing you. My main gripes with Savage are the trigger and the barrels. Their bolt and head setup is a little weird and I've seen extractors go flying at ranges but all in all that's probably something I could live with. If they lapped their barrels I wouldn't have anything bad to say about them.
Now, I could replace a barrel, and possibly myself. I'd really like a Krieger but is there anybody out there that can take a Krieger blank, chamber, thread and crown it so I can install it myself?
The triggers I just can't deal with. However, some have said there are replacements out there - are there any particular ones that I should know about? I really like two-stages.
Is Savage's recoil lug integral? Would a Savage's action need printing to really be considered for target work?
If I could get a Savage action cheap (or donor rifle) and there's a smith out there that will take a barrel blank and make it drop-in I'd consider it since I could change the trigger. The stock on pretty much any action will be replaced obviously so I've never taken that into consideration for any make.
Wayne
ETA It looks like their target action is the only one that would have any stiffness advantage as it has a relatively small port and a lot more meat on top than their regular hunting one. Their lug's not integral either I see.
I'm hearing you. My main gripes with Savage are the trigger and the barrels. Their bolt and head setup is a little weird and I've seen extractors go flying at ranges but all in all that's probably something I could live with. If they lapped their barrels I wouldn't have anything bad to say about them.
Now, I could replace a barrel, and possibly myself. I'd really like a Krieger but is there anybody out there that can take a Krieger blank, chamber, thread and crown it so I can install it myself?
The triggers I just can't deal with. However, some have said there are replacements out there - are there any particular ones that I should know about? I really like two-stages.
Is Savage's recoil lug integral? Would a Savage's action need printing to really be considered for target work?
If I could get a Savage action cheap (or donor rifle) and there's a smith out there that will take a barrel blank and make it drop-in I'd consider it since I could change the trigger. The stock on pretty much any action will be replaced obviously so I've never taken that into consideration for any make.
Wayne
ETA It looks like their target action is the only one that would have any stiffness advantage as it has a relatively small port and a lot more meat on top than their regular hunting one. Their lug's not integral either I see.
Savage has made single shot Target Rifles in the 112 series for years, I think you need to check out these barrels available from Jim Biggs:
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,35480.0.html for Shilen barrels
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,35479.0.html for McGowen barrels
If you really want a Krieger I'm sure you can find a smith to make it.
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,35480.0.html for Shilen barrels
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,35479.0.html for McGowen barrels
If you really want a Krieger I'm sure you can find a smith to make it.
Wayne,
I don't see where the Savage barrels that I have are any worse than other barrels from other manufacturers are as far a cleaning goes. As far as I know, no manufacturer laps standard barrels. Taken with the incredible accuracy that almost every Savage barrel that I have personally and from every one else that owns them, it is really a moot point, if accuracy is your primary want in a rifle, as it is for me.
I have a few Savages that wear after market barrels. A Shilen, a Benchmark cut rifle and a Brux cut rifle barrel. These were hand lapped and obvious clean much easier than a stock barrel. Any smith can chamber and thread the barrel for you. All that you will need is a barrel vise and a go/nogo gauge for the caliber you are using. The pre-fit barrels are incredible deals and all of my pre-fits are exceptional shooters, but my stock Savages are no slouches either for that matter.
The Sharp Shooters Supply trigger is my personal favorite for a Savage, but Rifle Basix also makes a nice trigger for Savages.
The Savage action does not really need to be "trued" like a fixed head bolt system. The beauty of the floating head is that always aligns itself! I have a Brux on a Target Action with Sharp Shooter Supply Competition trigger in 6mmBR. It is super accurate out to 500 yds (the farthest range that I have to shoot at near my home). It is easily a 1/4 MOA rifle and better when conditions are right.
Savages are not as sexy as my Remington's, but when I reach into the safe to shoot, it will 9 times out of 10 be for one of my Savages. Give them a chance. Pick up a used short action receiver, a quality pre-fit barrel and a good after market trigger, stock of your liking. I really think that it will change your opinion. I know that I did and never worry about what anyone else thinks. I love to see the faces when these ugly Savage's out shoots their sexy high dollar rigs
I don't see where the Savage barrels that I have are any worse than other barrels from other manufacturers are as far a cleaning goes. As far as I know, no manufacturer laps standard barrels. Taken with the incredible accuracy that almost every Savage barrel that I have personally and from every one else that owns them, it is really a moot point, if accuracy is your primary want in a rifle, as it is for me.
I have a few Savages that wear after market barrels. A Shilen, a Benchmark cut rifle and a Brux cut rifle barrel. These were hand lapped and obvious clean much easier than a stock barrel. Any smith can chamber and thread the barrel for you. All that you will need is a barrel vise and a go/nogo gauge for the caliber you are using. The pre-fit barrels are incredible deals and all of my pre-fits are exceptional shooters, but my stock Savages are no slouches either for that matter.
The Sharp Shooters Supply trigger is my personal favorite for a Savage, but Rifle Basix also makes a nice trigger for Savages.
The Savage action does not really need to be "trued" like a fixed head bolt system. The beauty of the floating head is that always aligns itself! I have a Brux on a Target Action with Sharp Shooter Supply Competition trigger in 6mmBR. It is super accurate out to 500 yds (the farthest range that I have to shoot at near my home). It is easily a 1/4 MOA rifle and better when conditions are right.
Savages are not as sexy as my Remington's, but when I reach into the safe to shoot, it will 9 times out of 10 be for one of my Savages. Give them a chance. Pick up a used short action receiver, a quality pre-fit barrel and a good after market trigger, stock of your liking. I really think that it will change your opinion. I know that I did and never worry about what anyone else thinks. I love to see the faces when these ugly Savage's out shoots their sexy high dollar rigs
Most any smith with a lathe can turn a Krieger so you can install it yourself, no issues there.
As for a "cheap Savage Donor Rifle", you can grab a new Stevens for $300 most anywhere. The Stevens is a pre-accutriggern Savage, though they are now center-feed. I feel that other than the Savage Precision Target Action, they are the best starting point for a semi custom build, as you're not paying extra money for a bunch of parts you will be removing, like the trigger and stock. I built my .222, which is capable of .25MOA or better accuracy, for right around $1200 complete, minus scope.
Here is a list of what I bought:
Action, Stevens (used):.......$200 (new:$300)
Stock, SSS Dog Tracker:......$325
Barrel, Pac-Nor:...................$400
Trigger, RB SAV-2................$150
SSS Recoil lug:....................$30
Scope base, Bench Source:...$75
Burris Rings:........................$50
single shot ramp:.................$18
As for the better Savage triggers, one of the better models you can install yourself is the Rifle Basix SAV-2, which is adjustable from 4oz to 3lbs. I have two of them now, one replaced the Timney that was on my .222 and the other is on my deer/varmint .243. The .222 is set to 5oz and is quite crisp, definitely better than any accu-trigger I have felt. The other is set at 24oz, still good and crisp as well. I have the Timney on my .308 Stevens now, and it is set to 2lbs and is a nice trigger as well.
Though the best Savage trigger you can buy is made by Sharp Shooter Supply and is the Evolution Trigger, though you need to send them your action to have it installed. It's about as close to a Jewell as you can get on a Savage. I have tried one in the past, and it was honestly one of the best feeling triggers I have ever used. It's a 3-lever design and is definitely worth the money to have it installed.
Sharp Shooter Supply also makes a trigger you can install yourself as well, and it is adjustable from 12oz to 2lbs.
Jim Briggs from Northland Shooter Supply is a great guy to talk to, as he stocks many Savage rifles, actions, barreled actions, take-off stocks, barrels and other parts, as well as new barrels from Shilen, Criterion (Krieger's button rifling division) and McGowen. He is a great guy to deal with as well.
Kenny
As for a "cheap Savage Donor Rifle", you can grab a new Stevens for $300 most anywhere. The Stevens is a pre-accutriggern Savage, though they are now center-feed. I feel that other than the Savage Precision Target Action, they are the best starting point for a semi custom build, as you're not paying extra money for a bunch of parts you will be removing, like the trigger and stock. I built my .222, which is capable of .25MOA or better accuracy, for right around $1200 complete, minus scope.
Here is a list of what I bought:
Action, Stevens (used):.......$200 (new:$300)
Stock, SSS Dog Tracker:......$325
Barrel, Pac-Nor:...................$400
Trigger, RB SAV-2................$150
SSS Recoil lug:....................$30
Scope base, Bench Source:...$75
Burris Rings:........................$50
single shot ramp:.................$18
As for the better Savage triggers, one of the better models you can install yourself is the Rifle Basix SAV-2, which is adjustable from 4oz to 3lbs. I have two of them now, one replaced the Timney that was on my .222 and the other is on my deer/varmint .243. The .222 is set to 5oz and is quite crisp, definitely better than any accu-trigger I have felt. The other is set at 24oz, still good and crisp as well. I have the Timney on my .308 Stevens now, and it is set to 2lbs and is a nice trigger as well.
Though the best Savage trigger you can buy is made by Sharp Shooter Supply and is the Evolution Trigger, though you need to send them your action to have it installed. It's about as close to a Jewell as you can get on a Savage. I have tried one in the past, and it was honestly one of the best feeling triggers I have ever used. It's a 3-lever design and is definitely worth the money to have it installed.
Sharp Shooter Supply also makes a trigger you can install yourself as well, and it is adjustable from 12oz to 2lbs.
Jim Briggs from Northland Shooter Supply is a great guy to talk to, as he stocks many Savage rifles, actions, barreled actions, take-off stocks, barrels and other parts, as well as new barrels from Shilen, Criterion (Krieger's button rifling division) and McGowen. He is a great guy to deal with as well.
Kenny
I'll keep my eye out for a good deal but I think I'd prefer to stick with that target action with more meat and probably a short. If I end up hating it for some reason I can probably find plenty of Savage fanatics to take it off my hands.
Trick is finding a good deal on the action. I might just have some friends that can help me out in that department though . . .
Kenny, I'll keep my eye out for a Stevens as well. The thought of sending an action off to have a trigger installed is ludicrous to me so I'd probably go for one of the ones that I can do myself.
Thanks,
Wayne
Trick is finding a good deal on the action. I might just have some friends that can help me out in that department though . . .
Kenny, I'll keep my eye out for a Stevens as well. The thought of sending an action off to have a trigger installed is ludicrous to me so I'd probably go for one of the ones that I can do myself.
Thanks,
Wayne
Tango: As mentioned earlier, I bought my savages as used. One is the model 12BVSS which I rebarreled to a used pac-nor in the 260Rem. The second is a 112BVSS in 220 swift. The swift I bought for the action and stock simply knowing the swift barrel would be toast. I my surprise the swift is by far the best shooter I have ever owned. I recently shot a group at 300 yards that all holes touched. The bullet simply goes where the crosshair was at touch-off. The guns are bedded, of course. The triggers are SSS aftermarket triggers and adjust nicely to just a few ounces. The swift came to me with the Trigger. The 260 Rem trigger I bought used on a forum for 1/2 price....it works! I shot competition at 600 yards with the 260. 10 shots total: all shots were in the 10 ring, with eight in the "X".
The BVSS stock is a heavy weight laminate that works well for competition with the right rest.
As mentioned before I hated the Savage,but have gianed acceptance to them. I can tinker with them, change barrels,,,adjust my headspace, and they DO shoot. BTW, both my Savages still wear the original recoil lug and the actions have not been trued, timed or any other thing others do to them.
The BVSS stock is a heavy weight laminate that works well for competition with the right rest.
As mentioned before I hated the Savage,but have gianed acceptance to them. I can tinker with them, change barrels,,,adjust my headspace, and they DO shoot. BTW, both my Savages still wear the original recoil lug and the actions have not been trued, timed or any other thing others do to them.
Jim at Northland Shooter Supply has the best deal on Savage Target actions that i am aware of. He lists his offerings on the Savage Shooter web site. One of the best guys to do business with too IMO. If you call him, be prepared to spent a little time on the phone though. Jim loves to talk
Parting out a Savage is always the best way to go and I seriously doubt that you will get hurt too badly if it did not suit you in the future. Best of luck!
jonbearman
I live in new york state,how unfortunate !
15 tango,congrats for coming over to the dark side!LOL I am glad that you are willing to at least try one with good parts like mine are and see what the so called ugly duckling can do.LOL
Depends on if I can find a target action cheap, $460 is what Northland's charging. I have to research the barrel issue - if I can get a Krieger chambered and threaded up for it so I can install it myself.
I need to shoot my Ruger again just to make sure it's truly shot out as well. I was getting 1.5"-2" groups at 200 yards which isn't useful for my intention.
It might still be cheaper to have another smith that I've been referred to just rebarrel the Ruger.
I really don't mind having a lot of projects going at once so it's not something I'm rushing on. I'm willing to try a Savage since I can get all the junk off it I don't like, pretty much sounds like that's what everybody does with them anyway.
Oh yeah, and Mike - CZ laps their barrels. They're the only ones I know of that does it though. Fools won't chamber their heavy barrel stuff in anything but boring cartridges with bad twist rates though.
Wayne
OK I did not know that CZ lapped their barrels. It is not common was my intent in the comment. CZ's are fine rifles no doubt.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Wayne,
Dunno if it has any appeal for ya at all... but Savage is offering the 6.5 Creedmoor in several guns in their 2011 lineup. One in particular, the 12 LRP, has a Target Action, Target Accutrigger, 26" fluted heavy barrel, HS Precision stock, detachable box magazine. The action and barrel are blued/ chrome-moly instead of stainless, but its also quite a bit cheaper than the LRPV DBM (which it effectively replaces). Other calibers include .243 Win (9.25 tw) and .260 Rem (8 tw)
Seeing as you already have dies, brass, load data, etc. for 6.5 Creedmoor it might be something worth checking out.
If you don't want to go that path... it's unfortunate you didn't come to the light sooner. I have a Target Action w/ 30" bbl in 7 WSM throated for B180VLDs that I just sold...
Monte
Dunno if it has any appeal for ya at all... but Savage is offering the 6.5 Creedmoor in several guns in their 2011 lineup. One in particular, the 12 LRP, has a Target Action, Target Accutrigger, 26" fluted heavy barrel, HS Precision stock, detachable box magazine. The action and barrel are blued/ chrome-moly instead of stainless, but its also quite a bit cheaper than the LRPV DBM (which it effectively replaces). Other calibers include .243 Win (9.25 tw) and .260 Rem (8 tw)
Seeing as you already have dies, brass, load data, etc. for 6.5 Creedmoor it might be something worth checking out.
If you don't want to go that path... it's unfortunate you didn't come to the light sooner. I have a Target Action w/ 30" bbl in 7 WSM throated for B180VLDs that I just sold...
Monte
That 12 LRP would have to be a very good price for me to mess with it but I certainly see your point about it. It's cool to see another OEM getting on board with the Creedmoor as well as the 260.
I like the 7MM WSM, it's a good cartridge but I'm not hearing good about its barrel life and it takes a lot of powder, I was willing to give up a little power to get some longer barrel life and less powder burned with a 284 Shehane.
I'll have to check out some prices on the 12 LRP you're talking about.
Thanks
I like the 7MM WSM, it's a good cartridge but I'm not hearing good about its barrel life and it takes a lot of powder, I was willing to give up a little power to get some longer barrel life and less powder burned with a 284 Shehane.
I'll have to check out some prices on the 12 LRP you're talking about.
Thanks
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