Ruger action for F-Class?

[15Tango]

Who has built a rifle using a Ruger action and how has it worked out?

My rifle appear to be in need of a barrel at this time and the cheapest option is to rebarrel it and have the action printed (around $700 + cost of barrel). Beside being my cheapest option as I already have a stock setup for it and already having the action it has a few other positives: flat bottom, fully adjustable two-stage trigger, integral recoil lug, claw extraction so I can pick out the cartridge without flinging it (without having to remove an ejector).

My main concerns are:

Is printing going to be effective? I plan on having Stan Ware do the work, he's in MN and convenient.

Is the tenon length sufficient for hanging a heavy 30" Krieger on? I don't know how long those threads are.

So if you've built on a Ruger action let me know how it worked out. Next I need to figure out my chambering which is another big question.

Wayne

 

[FryeGuy]

The only gunsmith I have talked to that had worked on Rugers didn't like them too much. The actions were cast. He said he had seen several that the threads were horrible on. stated the barrels, as soon as the relieved torque off of shoulder were so loose it was scary. I just looked at a rebarreled ruger, and all of that came to mind and I walked away. but your gunsmith could I guess fix all of that when he works the action over. Do you think you could sell the ruger gun as is, and buy another brand action? you are talking about spending $700 for blueprinting and barrel. If you sold the gun and got at least $300-400 for it, take that and the other $700 and you could find a used gun with the work already done on it, or buy a brand new savage f-class in 6br or 6.5-284, ready to go. just a thought.

 

[15Tango]

Selling it and buying another action doesn't seem to be as cheap.

1. That $700 was for installing the barrel and blue printing, blue printing was only $200 of that. Chambering, installing and crowning the barrel were the other $500 that $500 is going to be spent on whatever I end up getting to install a barrel.

2. I already have the stock and it's bedded for the Ruger action, I'll have to buy another stock and inlet it for another action so that'll be another couple hundred.

3. I buy another action and I'll have to buy a trigger and possibly bottom metal, that'll be another couple hundred.

Savage is out of the question. No way, no how. I want to be able to shoot 1000 yard F-Class so I'm leaning towards a 7MM, 284 Shehane most likely.

I see what you're saying about the threads on the receiver, it's a guessing game if mine's like that or not, it's a VT and I think they might be putting a little more work into those, this thing did shoot around .2-.3" at one point. I'm wondering if the smith could do a batter thread matching job in regard to making the barrel threads better than Ruger does on their barrels making things tighter?

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[FryeGuy]

that (threads) would be something they check when blueprinting and installing barrel anyway. just trying to throw out ideas on the savage thing. I don't have one either, but people are swearing by them. you could also consider one of the remington 308 mil spec guns. A shop nearby has a new one on sale, marked down to it was either $900 or $999, can't remember. they have nice stocks already. You would only need to bed it and you would be good to go for a long time. I have been tempted to get it myself, but I already have (2) .308's. I just don't know how long you would be happy with a ruger shooting f-class.

 

[shortgrass]

Seems like there are much better choices of actions available for your purpose. As for the Savages, some swear by 'um, some swear at 'um.

 

[McKinneyMike]

Seems like there are much better choices of actions available for your purpose. As for the Savages, some swear by 'um, some swear at 'um.

Some people can not stand what Team Savage has done with bone stock rifles in the LR competitions

 

[brxbrad]

You sound like me. You're looking to get the most for your money. I have a BRX built from a Savage 110 action and love it. I already had the action and the Scope. I added a new fclass stock, used barrel 800 rnds, setup, bedding, 20 min rail, new brass and got away with spending right around $1000. I couldn't be more pleased with this rifle, it shoots sub 1/2MOA groups. I use it for 600 and 1000 yrd comp. Based on what I've read, I anticipate about 2500 rnds of barrel life with this gun and the long action will allow me to choose pretty much any cartridge when the time comes for a new barrel.
With that being said, ....
I thought about the .284 as you mentioned but considerd the 1000 to 1500 rnd barrel life, lapua brass at $1.00 each, higher cost for bullets, approx 50 grs of powder, etc. and with a limited amount of funds for shooting it just didn't add up.
FryeGuy mentioned the Savage Model 12 FClass. I have a shooting buddy that has one. They are fine guns. I feel you might get the most for you money by selling the Ruger and purchasing the Savage. Check out this link: http://www.chuckhawks.com/savage_M12-Fclass.htm

Brad
F-Class High Master

 

[15Tango]

The Savage is absolutely not an option. I can't stand them.

Team Savage, blah blah blah - I don't know of any other box company out there with a rifle shooting team much less making F-class tailored rifles - lack of competition doesn't make them the bee's knees.

I really wish these companies would figure out how popular these disciplines are becoming and get with the program, I've owned a lot of rifles and only my .22s have killed anything other than paper (gophers in the garden).

BRX Brad, you're actually shooting a BRX to 1000 and doing well? I've been considering building a 6RAT or 6T40 (they both launch 95s & 105s at about the same velocity as a BRX) upper instead and running that for a while but I didn't know if a 95 VLD at 3000 or 105 at 2900 would really be competitive at 1000, I knew it would certainly clean up at 600 though. The drop certainly is doable but the wind must be tricky. Maybe I'll have to ditch the bolt rifle until I can do it right, sell the Ruger and use the cash to build the 6MM upper.

I certainly hear what you're saying about the cost of shooting 7MM with 50+ grains of powder and expensive bullets. From what I've read the 284 is supposed to last more like 2-3000 though so I was hoping the cost of barrels would offset the cost of supplies. The current rifle is in 6.5 Creedmoor and it didn't last as long as I thought it would and if I go to a hot 6MM that will last even less. It starts to make me wish I had an AR10 to build off of!

Frye, I see what you're saying with .308s, there are certainly a lot of good ones out there to choose from but with the amount of recoil and ballistics of the .308 they just can't hang with a 6, 6.5 or 7MM in my opinion.

Bah, too many choices and too little cash.

Wayne

 

[280man]

Wayne

I have been to a couple of F Class matches and I have yet to see a Ruger of any form in the winners circle. Not saying you can't be the first and it sounds like you know quite a bit about it so I say go for it

 

[280man]

Also I guess I will take up for my Savage friends. You probably don't know it but it just so happens that the majority of the team were The World Champions last year at Bisley

 

[memilanuk]

Wayne,

I've had my issues with Ruger in the past, suffice to say they aren't high on my list more due their CS dept than that I don't like their looks. I understand that some things just don't appeal to everyone... I still think the bolt on a Savage could look nicer, but it's kinda grown on me...

That aside... if someone is charging you $200 to blue print the action, and $500 to install the barrel, *PLUS* the cost of the barrel (another $300-500)... I think its in your best interest to find another 'smith. I've dealt with some reasonably good 'smiths in the past, and $700 for the whole shebang, including the barrel, was a tad on the high side then. Maybe gunsmith prices for labor have doubled and tripled in the last 3-5 years (think I would have heard about it by the by), maybe you mis-understood his pricing and the $500 does actually include the barrel. Maybe the gunsmith is jacking the price because he doesn't really want to work on it; maybe he does and has experienced the stuff mentioned in previous posts and is covering his backside.

As it is, for what your smith is charging you as stated... if Savage isn't an option I'd start looking @ one of the semi-custom Rem700 clones from Borden or Stiller or similar as the basis for a new gun. I think you'd be better off doing that than pouring money down a receiver that is basically an investment cast Mauser.

FWIW... Browning does have an F-Class gun as well - they just don't market it much - yet. A gentleman from BC shot one at a match down here this fall and did pretty well with it - I was certainly impressed. The stock had some nice features.

Monte

 

[15Tango]

Also I guess I will take up for my Savage friends. You probably don't know it but it just so happens that the majority of the team were The World Champions last year at Bisley

You're saying the team is comprised of guys that were/are World Champions and brought to the team after or they won a World Championship as team members?

Teams like this remind me of snowmobile racing, the winning manufacturer was just the one that happened to have the winning riders. Arctic Cat would be the winner for a few years, then their top rider would go to Ski Doo and then Ski Doo would be the winner. I don't believe what Savage says about their team rifles being factory stock versions that are the same as if they bought them from Gander Mountain - saying that's like saying Jeff Gordon's racing on Sunday with the same Impala my mom drives. Doug Koenig's skill doesn't mean S&W makes the best 1911.

280man, I certainly hear what you're saying about Ruger in the winner's circle, I'm trying to weigh the odds here to see if putting my cash up to see if it's an inherent fault in Ruger's receivers that makes them sparse in competition (lack of something), if it's a Mauser action that makes them sparse (don't see a lot of those either) or just a bad stigma with Ruger in general - people love saying they're inaccurate.

At this point the venture might be put on the back burner to an AR 6MM upper depending on what John Holliger quotes me on prices and if Robert Whitley's willing to quote me prices on just a barrel/extension and bolt.

Wayne

 

[15Tango]

Monte,

That aside... if someone is charging you $200 to blue print the action, and $500 to install the barrel, *PLUS* the cost of the barrel (another $300-500)... I think its in your best interest to find another 'smith. I've dealt with some reasonably good 'smiths in the past, and $700 for the whole shebang, including the barrel, was a tad on the high side then. Maybe gunsmith prices for labor have doubled and tripled in the last 3-5 years (think I would have heard about it by the by), maybe you mis-understood his pricing and the $500 does actually include the barrel. Maybe the gunsmith is jacking the price because he doesn't really want to work on it; maybe he does and has experienced the stuff mentioned in previous posts and is covering his backside.

This is interesting, $200 seemed cheap to me. Stan Ware's the one that quoted me on this, he's in the 'list' of smiths on this site. Seems like the cost of truing an action is quite a bit higher than $200 from the others I've checked but maybe I'm just not looking in the right place?

Here's his quote:

To do the following :
1. Thread chamber and headspace..... $300.00
2. Indicated crown of you choice..... $85.00 (indicated in like you would chamber)
3. Special throat or neck.... $42.50
4. Bead blast or polish to 400 grit and letter barrel with pantograph...(includes cartridge name and Neck diamerter) .... $82.00
5. Print reciever and true bolt..... $205.00

As it is, for what your smith is charging you as stated... if Savage isn't an option I'd start looking @ one of the semi-custom Rem700 clones from Borden or Stiller or similar as the basis for a new gun. I think you'd be better off doing that than pouring money down a receiver that is basically an investment cast Mauser.

As I said in my last post, I questioned whether it was a Ruger issue or maybe a Mauser action issue here, now curiously you bring that up while I was typing my last reply haha! I've heard about the Mauser thing before but the only reason I've ever heard against it was that some material had to be removed from the chamber end of the barrel to allow for the extractor and that took away some rigidity - it seems like a small issue if the tenon's long enough and the amount removed is small. Any other reasons you or anybody else has heard of? I'm not sure the cast part really bothers me, Ruger's handguns are known to be as tough as it gets (Ruger only! ammo anyone?) and some custom actions, as stated by a forum member/smith stated about cast receivers: "Shilen DGA actions as well as the very fine Farley BR actions were and are cast."

FWIW... Browning does have an F-Class gun as well - they just don't market it much - yet. A gentleman from BC shot one at a match down here this fall and did pretty well with it - I was certainly impressed. The stock had some nice features.

I remember seeing when that came out last year and wondered how it shot but it's kind of expensive and the chamberings are kind of blah (223, 308 or 300WSM), 300 WSM would certainly do the trick but holy recoil (more than I care for) and expensive to load. Maybe if they'd market it properly and offer some better chamberings it'd sell better. It's good to hear they're shooting well though! Do you know if it was made in Japan like the rest of their line?

Thanks for the input, man.

Wayne

 

[memilanuk]

The extra charges for crowning and throating on top of already fitting the barrel to the receiver are new to me. The bead blast and pantograph work are 'fluff'... not what I'd normally consider a part of the barrel work price, but extra (certainly nice to have).

Maybe the receiver/bolt trueing costs that much these days. Lord knows I was pissed when I got double-gouged by a smith for it (truing an action that had been already trued, just not by him, and without telling the customer - me - about it until he handed me the bill) so I tend to be kind of suspicious about that stuff.

As far as the investment cast... I'd imagine there is a bit of difference between the mass-produced stuff used by Ruger and the smaller specialty lots used by custom action manufacturers. YMMV. My 'gripe' with the Mauser type action is the huge gaping holes top and bottom, with relatively little 'meat' connecting the front and back. Do they work? Sure as sure. Do I like 'em? About as much as you do Savages

 

[15Tango]

The extra charges for crowning and throating on top of already fitting the barrel to the receiver are new to me. The bead blast and pantograph work are 'fluff'... not what I'd normally consider a part of the barrel work price, but extra (certainly nice to have).

Point taken, I'll have to do some option weighing there.

As far as the investment cast... I'd imagine there is a bit of difference between the mass-produced stuff used by Ruger and the smaller specialty lots used by custom action manufacturers.

That certain makes me wonder. From what I've read they're one of the best companies out there for casting, a lot of aerospace companies even use their stuff and even Callaway Golf. Your point about a lot of open area being there connecting the front and back is taken. That's what makes me wonder really about the absolute potential of this thing.

I think I'll probably be shooting a 6MM RAT or T40 upper next year for F-Class while deciding on what to do about this thing. Maybe the answer will present itself in a some sort of deal I can't pass up on a custom action or donor rifle. If I have the 6MM upper I won't feel pressed for time and make a hasty decision then.

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[jonbearman]

You better do your homework on blasting invest casting as weak and imperfect.I agree that dumping money into a ruger is alittle foolish however I have a friend who has rebarreled 3 rugers and they are tack drivers.Back in the 1930's investment casting was a means to save money and speed production during wwII.Now that said,I believe all the m1 carbines are all invest castings as well as other modern gun makers go they use it widely.I have worked in the machine trades and we used investment castings for their strength and less machining overall.Invest castings are extremely strong and ruger is in the forefront of the industry manufacturing them for all kinds of companys.Gun making is only a sideline for them now and there foundry work is second to none. Now I may be wrong about the ww11 recievers but aerospace uses tons of stuff that is invest cast as well as the car industry.I agree that the savage isnt the top dog for beauty and quality.But why can I make them shoot real good.You see,most people are put off by the stuff shirt recievers out there because they are so overpriced.Most of the top shooters are very wealthy and they can buy the best and who wouldnt.I would if I had disposable income.To bash savage the way you have has upset me because you are so opinionated that nobody else's opinion means it's worth in salt. You just dont like savage for various reasons ,it doesnt matter to us. I own alittle bit of everthing but I never try to insult peoples intelligence.They want opinions not fruitless arguments over who likes what best .Frankly I am getting alittle turned off from this forum because of all the petty bickering going on.Lets just give our opinions and move on.That makes it easier for the person asking the question to understand and extrapulate the imfo he is looking for in the firstplace.

 

[15Tango]

Jon,

I never meant to insult anybody and I don't see anybody else insulting anybody in this thread. Everybody's given me their opinions and some options that I hadn't thought of and I'm grateful for it.

To bash savage the way you have has upset me because you are so opinionated that nobody else's opinion means it's worth in salt. You just dont like savage for various reasons ,it doesnt matter to us. I own alittle bit of everthing but I never try to insult peoples intelligence.

You're getting upset . . . at the words on your computer. Everybody's entitled to their opinion, including me. I never said 'So and so, you're an idiot because you like Savage's for their (insert reasons),' did I? Nope.

I asked for options and opinions and I've received a lot. Just because I wasn't going to go the route that somebody suggestion doesn't mean I insulted them. You're okay with opinions and won't get offended as long as they're in line with yours?

"If everybody's thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton

Jon, try not to get too mad at your computer.

Everybody else,

I'm humbly grateful for your opinions and the options and questions you posed to me about my rifle.

Wayne

 

[Kenny474]

As for Team Savage, they actually became Champions at Bisley shooting for Team Savage with bone stock Savage Rifles. They were not just Champions that Savage happened to find and campaign, they became Champions once they started shooting for Team Savage with the rifles provided to them by Savage, which were stock Savages that were just basically hand picked with no other special work done.

You can dislike Savage, but don't take away from the great feats accomplished by Team Savage with factory rifles. They have won a lot and accomplished great things since hooking up with Savage, and anyone who has done what they have deserves to be commended.

As for not wanting a Savage, that's fine. But understand you are looking past one of the best out-of-the-box factory rifles going. I understand they have little competition, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that many people are either in the top 5 or 10 or even the winner's circle with stock Savage's all the time. Even at the big matches, such as Bisley. And they are going against full on customs as well, not just other factory rifles, so that certainly says something.

As for the Ruger, I would pass. Not a fan of investment cast actions, just feel there are far better starting points. I have seen way too many smith's that won't allow one in their shop, and there has to be a reason for it. And many others just refuse to work on them, saying there are better starting points for an accurate rifle, and actions that are far easier to make accurate. I think they are awesome as they come from the factory for a hunting rifle, or even other purposes if that's what they were built for, such as varminting or tactical work. But they just need too much to be brought up to the same level as some of the other actions when built as a custom rifle for serious accuracy work.

And $700+ the cost of the barrel is a bit much anyway. You could easily buy a second-hand rifle for that, or even a new rifle, such as a Remington, that will be very accurate as well. I saw a Savage F-Class in 6.5-.284 at the local shop brand new for just over $1k, and a used Savage FT/R in .308 for $800. Buy a pre-fit barrel in .284 and your ready to rock with a switch barrel rig that will run with the best of them.

Or just go for it with the Ruger. If the smith says it will be accurate, than I guess it's worth a shot. If it's what you want, than it's what you want and don't let anyone's opinion take away from your own. I don't plan to sell my Savages because you don't like them, and you shouldn't give up on what you want because it's not what I like either.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Kenny

 

[jonbearman]

I guess that maybe I was upset.It's just all the arguing going on in some threads.It is depressing at this time of the year.My appologys if I offended anyone on this thread.

 

[brxbrad]

15 Tango....You asked if I was doing well at 1000yrds with my BRX, I competed at Camp Butner (North State) August 19-22 this year and came in 3rd overall with a 972 and 27 behind Jeff Traylor and Danny Biggs with 979 and 44 and 978 and 46. I use Lapua Brass, 33.2 grains of Varget, 105 VLD's and Wolf Small Rifle Magnum Primers. I'm getting 3030 fps with a SD of 8 and puts me at approx 1400 fps at the 1000 yrd mark. This is the most consistant gun I've had the pleasure to shoot. Don't under estimate the BRX. Wind and mirage can be tricky with any caliber and also believe alot of shooters dont spend enough time learning how to shoot one gun in different conditions before they switch to a larger caliber or another gun hoping it will make up for lack of practice.
I want to wish you all the luck in the world with whatever you decide. Aren't guns fun.....Decisions....Decisions