Ring on the head after fl resizing of once fired brass

[Ggmac]

Generally yes . But any used rifle should be checked , since your bolt matches and the rifle hasn't had a hack lap the lugs out of it , you should be good .

 

[Anakin]

Generally yes . But any used rifle should be checked , since your bolt matches and the rifle hasn't had a hack lap the lugs out of it , you should be good .

Thanks a lot! just ordered a neck sizing die

 

[243winxb]

Compare measurements of your brass with SAAMI CARTRIDGE AND CHAMBER DRAWINGs.

Listed under rifle, here http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC

 

[M-61]

Thanks, so I just neck sizing the brass and not worrying about the headspace because the fired brass should automatically match the headspace in that specific rifle?

50,000psi has made that brass quite a close copy of that rifles chamber.

 

[6MMsteve]

Was that brass fired in that rifle ? If not I would start with new brass , the brass was obviously shot in a large chamber .

or headspaced notta danger Will Robinson Danger Danger

 

[MagnumManiac]

Seriously, just FL size your brass and shoot it.
What you see is NORMAL. The brass above the solid head expands, the solid head DOES NOT, this is what the bulge is.
Also, your chamber is not too large, it is also normal.

No need what so ever to worry about case head separations, they happen further up the case and are a wide yellow line, not a bump on the case.

If you FL size, just remember to only move the shoulder .002"-.003" back for easy chambering. Neck sizing is a bad idea, as the cases will start to be hard to chamber after a couple of firings and it will NOT increase case life.

Cheers.

 

[H380]

That is exactly why you do not want 1x GI brass from a machine gun. The case web is stretched all to hell. The chambers are funnel shaped for feeding. "Headspace" and NOTHING to do with the diameter of the chamber. Only the length from the bolt/breech face to somewhere in the chamber depending on the cartridge.

Tell us this. How much does the fired cases grow in length compared to a FACTORY round? Base to mouth.

 

[Anakin]

Seriously, just FL size your brass and shoot it.
What you see is NORMAL. The brass above the solid head expands, the solid head DOES NOT, this is what the bulge is.
Also, your chamber is not too large, it is also normal.

No need what so ever to worry about case head separations, they happen further up the case and are a wide yellow line, not a bump on the case.

If you FL size, just remember to only move the shoulder .002"-.003" back for easy chambering. Neck sizing is a bad idea, as the cases will start to be hard to chamber after a couple of firings and it will NOT increase case life.

Cheers.

Thanks for you advice, I searched some head separation pics, this one looks like had separation slightly above the bulge line:
http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=83621&page=2

I'm a new loader, a bit of anomaly bugs me a lot

 

[mongo chicago]

Magnum Mania C is correct. This brass didn't come out of the chamber like that, it was after resizing. When resizing the brass is also pushed down towards the base. It will get more pronounced the more you full length resize to SAMMI specs. Neck sizing only parcially helps as after a few loadings, you'll have to full length resize anyway. I have that ring on ALL my resized brass on ALL my guns in ALL calibers. Resizing to bump the shoulder back a few thousandths will reduce the size of the ring. Your chamber is fine.

 

[Anakin]

Magnum Mania C is correct. This brass didn't come out of the chamber like that, it was after resizing. When resizing the brass is also pushed down towards the base. It will get more pronounced the more you full length resize to SAMMI specs. Neck sizing only parcially helps as after a few loadings, you'll have to full length resize anyway. I have that ring on ALL my resized brass on ALL my guns in ALL calibers. Resizing to bump the shoulder back a few thousandths will reduce the size of the ring. Your chamber is fine.

Thanks! I shot three brands of factory ammo, winchester, hornady and ppu, the last two was not bad, once I have them rotary tumblered the mark on the brass almost goes away, and there is no noticeable bump. Only the winchester still has quite significant rings at the joint. The winchester brass has the smallest dimensions according to my measurement and also the bolt feel when chambering. I bound some brand new hornady brass and won't buy winchester any more.

 

[Comrade Terry]

won't buy winchester any more.

That's an excellent plan.

 

[M-61]

Quote from Anakin:
"....The winchester brass has the smallest dimensions according to my measurement and also the bolt feel when chambering..."

Lost me here. What do you mean by 'bolt feel'?

 

[Anakin]

Quote from Anakin:
"....The winchester brass has the smallest dimensions according to my measurement and also the bolt feel when chambering..."

Lost me here. What do you mean by 'bolt feel'?

The bolt is easier to close when chambering the winchester ammo

 

[Shaggy357]

Back in 69, when the rifle was made, there was still a lot of surplus ammo available. Many folks were shooting former military firearms with "field" chambers. The military chambers were oversize to accept dirty ammo and ammunition made in multiple countries. Reloading dies and new production rifles were often on the "larger" end of the SAAMI spec because the manufacturers made allowance for the available ammunition. A gun that would not fire available ammunition often didn't sell very well.

I collect the old war horses. I set my dies so the brass just fits my chamber. I know the sizing die is not going to get way down into the web of the case and tolerance in shell holders messes with the sizing of this area also. If you look close, you will see similar markings on the unsized case. The case going thru the sizing die just got "highlighted" in the area being sized. From looking at the photo, I would guess sizer die was set to touch the shell holder rather than set to size the case to fit the chamber. I back my sizing die off a full turn, size a once fired brass, and check fit in my chamber. I screw the die in 1/8-1/16th of a turn and try again. If the bolt wont close, do the 1/8 of a turn. As the bolts starts to cam over, only go 1/16th of a turn or so...with the old RCBS dies, this was usually a letter or two on the top surface of the die. When that bolt just closes freely on the sized brass, you should be good.

If the brass is full length sized, and shot in an oversized chamber, about 3 firings and you will see a much more pronounced ring. That is when you need the paper clip test and begin to worry about case head separation. Once fired from your gun, and sized to fit your chamber, should be good for 10-12 firings or more. (If the brass was originally annealed properly.) Military brass you would want to anneal to be sure.

If I had an original Model 70 from 69, I would buy virgin brass from Remington, Lapua, or maybe Hornady, load a moderate load to fireform the brass, and then size it to fit my chamber. Once fireformed, I would work up to full blown target or hunting rounds.

Hope this helps.

 

[Steve Ladino]

Back in 69, when the rifle was made, there was still a lot of surplus ammo available. Many folks were shooting former military firearms with "field" chambers. The military chambers were oversize to accept dirty ammo and ammunition made in multiple countries. Reloading dies and new production rifles were often on the "larger" end of the SAAMI spec because the manufacturers made allowance for the available ammunition. A gun that would not fire available ammunition often didn't sell very well.

I collect the old war horses. I set my dies so the brass just fits my chamber. I know the sizing die is not going to get way down into the web of the case and tolerance in shell holders messes with the sizing of this area also. If you look close, you will see similar markings on the unsized case. The case going thru the sizing die just got "highlighted" in the area being sized. From looking at the photo, I would guess sizer die was set to touch the shell holder rather than set to size the case to fit the chamber. I back my sizing die off a full turn, size a once fired brass, and check fit in my chamber. I screw the die in 1/8-1/16th of a turn and try again. If the bolt wont close, do the 1/8 of a turn. As the bolts starts to cam over, only go 1/16th of a turn or so...with the old RCBS dies, this was usually a letter or two on the top surface of the die. When that bolt just closes freely on the sized brass, you should be good.

If the brass is full length sized, and shot in an oversized chamber, about 3 firings and you will see a much more pronounced ring. That is when you need the paper clip test and begin to worry about case head separation. Once fired from your gun, and sized to fit your chamber, should be good for 10-12 firings or more. (If the brass was originally annealed properly.) Military brass you would want to anneal to be sure.

If I had an original Model 70 from 69, I would buy virgin brass from Remington, Lapua, or maybe Hornady, load a moderate load to fireform the brass, and then size it to fit my chamber. Once fireformed, I would work up to full blown target or hunting rounds.

Hope this helps.

 

[Anakin]

Back in 69, when the rifle was made, there was still a lot of surplus ammo available. Many folks were shooting former military firearms with "field" chambers. The military chambers were oversize to accept dirty ammo and ammunition made in multiple countries. Reloading dies and new production rifles were often on the "larger" end of the SAAMI spec because the manufacturers made allowance for the available ammunition. A gun that would not fire available ammunition often didn't sell very well.

I collect the old war horses. I set my dies so the brass just fits my chamber. I know the sizing die is not going to get way down into the web of the case and tolerance in shell holders messes with the sizing of this area also. If you look close, you will see similar markings on the unsized case. The case going thru the sizing die just got "highlighted" in the area being sized. From looking at the photo, I would guess sizer die was set to touch the shell holder rather than set to size the case to fit the chamber. I back my sizing die off a full turn, size a once fired brass, and check fit in my chamber. I screw the die in 1/8-1/16th of a turn and try again. If the bolt wont close, do the 1/8 of a turn. As the bolts starts to cam over, only go 1/16th of a turn or so...with the old RCBS dies, this was usually a letter or two on the top surface of the die. When that bolt just closes freely on the sized brass, you should be good.

If the brass is full length sized, and shot in an oversized chamber, about 3 firings and you will see a much more pronounced ring. That is when you need the paper clip test and begin to worry about case head separation. Once fired from your gun, and sized to fit your chamber, should be good for 10-12 firings or more. (If the brass was originally annealed properly.) Military brass you would want to anneal to be sure.

If I had an original Model 70 from 69, I would buy virgin brass from Remington, Lapua, or maybe Hornady, load a moderate load to fireform the brass, and then size it to fit my chamber. Once fireformed, I would work up to full blown target or hunting rounds.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Steve, I definitely understand more about my rifle from your posing. I've got a neck sizing die, my plan is to neck sizing the brass until the bolt is a bit stiff to close then I might full size or bump size (just as you did I guess) once.

I got my first batch of 30-06 tested in the range today, definitely saw improvement than the factory ammo I shot before. But I also had a big issue, although I'm sure the brass is the same size(from the same die setup and within 0.002 difference at all measurements), some (~30%) rounds are easy to chamber and the rest are extremely difficult. I came back and tested the rest of sized brass and found the same, between the easy-chambering and hard-chambering brass I found no difference in dimension, could you help? Thanks!

Here is a clip about what I described:

 

[243winxb]

between the easy-chambering and hard-chambering brass I found no difference in dimension

Does this include the head to datum measurement? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=...g_Success___Minimum_Headspace_and_Maximum_COL

The shell holder must contact the full length die, at the top of the stroke, while full length sizing. There must not be any day light between the two.

Some reloading presses will spring or flex when FL sizing. Having the shell holder and die make contact eliminates this problem.

Neck sizing- will not work IF, the rifles chamber is oval or the bolt face is not square to the chamber.
Test- Will all fired brass from your rifle, fit back into the chamber.

Controlled Feed- A 69 M70 should not be needing rounds fed from the magazine. But if you have the year or model wrong, when a round will not chamber, try loading it from the magazine.

For a new hand loader, FL sizing correctly, seem to be the most problematic.

 

[243winxb]

SAAMI http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm?page=CC

 

[Shaggy357]

Thanks Steve, I definitely understand more about my rifle from your posing. I've got a neck sizing die, my plan is to neck sizing the brass until the bolt is a bit stiff to close then I might full size or bump size (just as you did I guess) once.

I got my first batch of 30-06 tested in the range today, definitely saw improvement than the factory ammo I shot before. But I also had a big issue, although I'm sure the brass is the same size(from the same die setup and within 0.002 difference at all measurements), some (~30%) rounds are easy to chamber and the rest are extremely difficult. I came back and tested the rest of sized brass and found the same, between the easy-chambering and hard-chambering brass I found no difference in dimension, could you help? Thanks!

The length of brass, and the way the brass fits the bolt head are two causes for what I saw in the video. In my old Mausers and other Mauser type actions, I have to put the case in the magazine and let the bolt extract the case up and into the bolt face. If I do not, the rim on the case head cannot get behind the extractor and the bolt will not close. There may be some minor dimension that is not allowing the extractor to ride past the rim on the brass. Does your bolt have the factory extractor, or has there been some modification. Broken extractor spring can be very selective at times. (part of Murphy's law.) I have also see this in brass that has been sized, but not trimmed, and brass has grown too long to fit in the chamber. Sometimes that hard to close bolt is from shoulder moving, but also can be from total brass length.

I have a number of XP-100s that I shoot competition with and do long range varmint shooting. Most of these I can neck size 3, maybe 4 times, then I have to use the FL die to bump the shoulder. When it comes time to use the FL die, I go ahead and check trim length, anneal, etc. I have 300 6BR brass sitting in my reloading room waiting for that round "tuit" I get on rainy days. It has been such a dry spring I have not gotten much of my typical brass prep done for varmint season.....oh well, I have plenty of other guns I can take on the plane. I still have three weeks before my trip to the Best coast.

More opinion to see if it helps.