This gun never had an OEM bolt. Headspace was set with the PTG bolt. I have the firing pin swapped out with a factory Remington pin that measures bigger than the PTG pin. Will see what happens. Just need to get out and shoot. Snow and cold weather in the forecast for this week so it might be a while..... Here is the gun:
Ring on Primer
- Thread starter EasyShooter
- Start date
Old Navy
Gold $$ Contributor
That problem will just get worse to the point you get a heavy bolt lift and start blowing primers. It will not go away. PTG will take care of you. Try them first. Been down this road four times. One M5 ( AR-10) one Remington and two savages. A JP bolt cured the M5, GreTan took care of the Rem and Jerry at Carlsbad did a great job on the Savages.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
No way id send it back to ptg. Consider it a kit you bought. It works for 99% but the rest needs it customized. Send it to carlsbad and have it back within a week and itll be perfect.
On another note, whether it is this rifle or any other, the primer cratering can cause other problems. If you get up towards high pressure, some of the primer from the cratering can "shave off", if you will, and actually go thru the firing pin hole in the bolt body. The "tiny shavings" can accumulate in the bolt area where the firing pin will protrude. This accumulation eventually can and will prevent the firing pin from 1.) going forward to even strike the primer OR 2.) interfere with the "free-flow" of the firing pin, thus making contact with the primer SUPER inconsistent and firing will be intermittent and most certainly causing a dramatic reduction in accuracy.. With your bolt in it's present form, after say every 100 firings, remove the firing pin assembly and clean out the bolt body>>>>this will mitigate any of the aforementioned maladies you will eventually experience if you do not clean out the bolt body.
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
I will have to disagree. Yes, Carlsbad makes a firing pin to bolt fit perfect. I have had him do a factory Rem bolt for me. Gretan also does a fine job with them. The point is that if PTG is not held responsible for their shoddy workmanship, more and more guys will be stuck with overpriced junk. I also know from personal experience how difficult it can be to work with PTG. I say give them a chance to make it right. If they don't, then I guess it's on them.
Was this new brass? If so, bump the shoulders .002-.003 on fired brass and try it again with the same load.
I also tried some different bullets and powders. Does the same thing no matter what bullet or powder.
timeout
Silver $$ Contributor
FYI, having the bolt bushed will not change the headspace.
Also it may be possible that if the firing pin hole in the bolt is concentric someone may be able to provide you with a pin that can resolve your cratering issue.
bobm
Silver $$ Contributor
I think overall you have a non issue. It's not broke, don't fix it. Bump up your loads and the ring will go away by being pressure flattened against the bolt face. Simple. Here are some pictures from rounds fired in the last few days. Rifles were stock factory Rem. 700 in 7-08, Winchester M70 in .30-06
Left photo: Mild low pressure 7-08 very accurate practice load , Rem 9 1/2 primer, consistent raised ring on all. I have run warm loads from same rifle with flat, no raised ring condition primers.
Center photo: Stout 30-06 elk load, Rem 9 1/2 primer, slight raised ring on a few in the box.
Right photo: SAME stout 30-06 elk load, same primer from same box fired. The right photo rounds had just a little more pressure happening. No raised ring as it was hammered flat. This load is extremely accurate. It's a hunting gun.
You are running a quality set up. Experiment with increased charges. I bet your "problem" will go away.
Left photo: Mild low pressure 7-08 very accurate practice load , Rem 9 1/2 primer, consistent raised ring on all. I have run warm loads from same rifle with flat, no raised ring condition primers.
Center photo: Stout 30-06 elk load, Rem 9 1/2 primer, slight raised ring on a few in the box.
Right photo: SAME stout 30-06 elk load, same primer from same box fired. The right photo rounds had just a little more pressure happening. No raised ring as it was hammered flat. This load is extremely accurate. It's a hunting gun.
You are running a quality set up. Experiment with increased charges. I bet your "problem" will go away.
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bobm
Silver $$ Contributor
I found the 50 cases that were fired two weeks ago with a stiff load in that same 7-08 as the left side picture. Same primer as the picture with a mild load. As you can see there is no raised ring or metal flow happening with a standard factory "sloppy" pin/hole combination.
You say only 20 some shots fired so far, I am assuming you have not tried any factory loaded ammo to compare fired primer condition.
You have a long range high performance rifle / cartridge set up. "Step on the gas" if you know what I mean.
You say only 20 some shots fired so far, I am assuming you have not tried any factory loaded ammo to compare fired primer condition.
You have a long range high performance rifle / cartridge set up. "Step on the gas" if you know what I mean.
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No all I shoot are reloads. Factory 6.5 PRC ammo is going for up to $6.00 per round right now and I definitely don’t want to pay that. Luckily I bought 100 rounds of brass before this mess started. I also have a bolt in a bare SA mag face Remington 700 action. Tempting to check headspace with it and if it is okay try it out to see if there is a difference.
bobm
Silver $$ Contributor
There are hundreds of pictures on the internet of cratered primers.
Very good reading here.....
STOP before yours look like this one.
Very good reading here.....
STOP before yours look like this one.
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divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
How will they be flattened against the bolt face if they're flowing around the firing pin tip into the hole for the firing pin? Nothing there to flatten them.
To the OP: These are pics of the same (reasonably mild) load, fired before and after Jerry (Carlsbad) bushed the firing pin in my Rem700.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
Went through this issue with my Open rifle . As Dusty and others have already said , there is too much clearance between the diameter of the firing pin and the hole in the bolt . Stop shooting it , and get it properly repaired , because it will only get worse . Perforated primers come next , and then "flash-burn on your bolt face , requiring a re-facing , and reset of the head-space , and on and on . Been there . Done this . You can pay me now ....or you can pay me later . When it will cost more to fix .
jelenko
Gold $$ Contributor
Exactly!
bobm
Silver $$ Contributor
I love a spirited discussion about a worthy topic.
How would you explain the visual difference between the low and high pressure pictures from the exact same primer and rifle? The OP picture and my left picture show the same "soft" or rounded raised crater rim. It is not sharp and obviously forced into the void between the hole and pin. (see above extreme example picture)
There is a lot of physical forces and pressure timing stuff going on that are beyond my knowledge.
Your pictures are very clear, I like them. What brand or model rifle bolt was that you had bushed?
My right picture suggests that the firing pin was fully extended at the same millisecond the cup hit the bolt face. There was no room for brass to flow into the fully closed gap. The pressure fell off before flowing brass could enter the hole gap.
Don't be too quick to condemn the integrity of the OP's rifle build quality. Let him further experiment with charge weights and see if it cures his problem. Someone should send the OP a few factory loaded rounds. I want to see the fired primers posted here.
How would you explain the visual difference between the low and high pressure pictures from the exact same primer and rifle? The OP picture and my left picture show the same "soft" or rounded raised crater rim. It is not sharp and obviously forced into the void between the hole and pin. (see above extreme example picture)
There is a lot of physical forces and pressure timing stuff going on that are beyond my knowledge.
Your pictures are very clear, I like them. What brand or model rifle bolt was that you had bushed?
My right picture suggests that the firing pin was fully extended at the same millisecond the cup hit the bolt face. There was no room for brass to flow into the fully closed gap. The pressure fell off before flowing brass could enter the hole gap.
Don't be too quick to condemn the integrity of the OP's rifle build quality. Let him further experiment with charge weights and see if it cures his problem. Someone should send the OP a few factory loaded rounds. I want to see the fired primers posted here.
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