Rifles to Pistols

[harvey13118]

There is a discussion in the varmint section for varmint pistols and using a rifle action to build a custom pistol. I've read it a dozen or so times. There seem to be some very knowledgable replies on the subject, yet not a diffiniative answer.

In the Southern Tier of NY we can not carry a centerfire rifle into the field during Shotgun season for deer.

I'd like to also build a pistol, which is legal,provided you hold a valid handgun permit) to carry in the field during deer season, or convert a Encore rifle to a pistol.

Is there a ban on converting Encore? Is there a paperwork trail to convert a rifle action?

Harvey

 

[457ciSBC]

There is a discussion in the varmint section for varmint pistols and using a rifle action to build a custom pistol. I've read it a dozen or so times. There seem to be some very knowledgable replies on the subject, yet not a diffiniative answer.

In the Southern Tier of NY we can not carry a centerfire rifle into the field during Shotgun season for deer.

I'd like to also build a pistol, which is legal,provided you hold a valid handgun permit) to carry in the field during deer season, or convert a Encore rifle to a pistol.

Is there a ban on converting Encore? Is there a paperwork trail to convert a rifle action?

Harvey

SBR PROCESS:
First and foremost, you must ensure that SBR's are lawful in your state of residence. After that, and assuming SBR's are lawful in your state, you must:

- Complete and sign 2 copies of ATF Form 5320.1,Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm)
- Attach 1 passport-style photos to each Form 1,2 photos total)
- Obtain the original signature,certification) of the Chief Law Enforcement Officer,CLEO) in your area on each Form 1. The CLEO may be the Chief of Police of your town, the Sheriff of your county or a District Attorney, among others. Depending on where you live and who you know this may be easy to obtain, or it may be virtually impossible.
- Complete and sign 1 copy of ATF Form 5330.20 "Certificate of Compliance"
- Include 2 sets of your fingerprints on ATF FD-258 fingerprint cards.
- Send all forms,with attached photos) and fingerprint cards, along with a $200 check,or money order) for payment of the Making Tax, to the address on the form. I recommend Registered Mail for this.
- Wait
- Wait some more,Actually it's not forever ... it just feels that way when it's your first time)
- In approximately 30-180 days, ATF will return 1 original approved Form to you.

After ATF returns the approved form you may lawfully assemble or "make" your SBR. Please note that you cannot lawfully make the SBR until after ATF has approved your application, nor should you possess the parts to complete the SBR until you have received the approved form. As soon as you get the form back, make several GOOD copies of it, and put the original one up in a safe place like a fire safe, lock box or even better, a safe deposit box. The ATF WILL NOT replace it if you lose it, they will send you a crappy photo copy. REMEMBER, This form keeps your butt out of jail and from belonging to some guy named Bubba.


CONVERTING AN ENCORE:
BATFE in their infinite wisdom says it is legal to go back and forth between pistol and carbine versions with the Encore or Contender. ONLY IF you never have a pistol barrel installed on a frame at the same time as a carbine stock. A carbine stock with a pistol barrel is a SBR.


MIKE

 

[Preacher]

The easiest way to do that is to just buy up a XP-100 receiver and built from that if you can't find what you want in one caliber wise..
It sure will save a lot of paper work and headaches.
You can also just buy a Encore pistol or a Contender in a good deer caliber and get to hunting deer with a handgun in NYS just like we've been doing since 1980...........

 

[vmthtr]

To much hassle to do it that way. Buy a used XP 100, Savage Striker, Contender or Encore and have at it. Jumping through the ATF hoops to get a rifle action into a pistol action is to much.

Mike

 

[harvey13118]

HOLY SHADES OF PAPERWORK!

Thank you for that answer. I was expecting some but not that much.

Found a very nice XP100 7mmbr at Syracuse gun show yesterday and did buy it. It came with a bunch of brass, shells, components and dies.

Time on the range will tell if it's a good buy as is.

Thank You again for that answer.

Harvey

 

[Asa_Yam]

CONVERTING AN ENCORE:
BATFE in their infinite wisdom says it is legal to go back and forth between pistol and carbine versions with the Encore or Contender. ONLY IF you never have a pistol barrel installed on a frame at the same time as a carbine stock. A carbine stock with a pistol barrel is a SBR.

ATF didn't have any say in the matter. Or rather, they tried to have a say, and got slapped back by the US Supreme Court,5-4 decision). From http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/supreme_cases.html

U.S. v. Thompson/Center Arms Co., - U.S.-,1992)
This is another recent examination of the meaning of the language of the NFA by the Supreme Court, along with Staples. Neither involves constitutional law. In this case the court was called upon to decide what constituted a short barreled rifle. T/C wanted to market a kit consisting of one receiver for their Contender gun, a 16"+ barrel, a >16" barrel, a pistol grip and a shoulder stock. This kit could be used, as intended, to assemble a rifle or a pistol, or it could also be used to assemble a SBR. As it could be so used, ATF decided it was a SBR. T/C made one unit on a Form 1, then sued for a tax refund, claiming it wasn't subject to the NFA. This is the way to challenge such a classification. Doing the thing York or SWD did, in those cases, is an invitation to a prosecution. The Staples case will limit such things, but one can easily lose....Here all that was at stake was money. The court decided that the language of the definition of a SBR was vague, and gave it the reading most favorable to the taxpayer, T/C. They decided the kit was not a SBR, nor was any set of parts where they could be used for a legitimate purpose, even if they could also be used to assemble a SBR. However a SBR fully assembled was also clearly a SBR. Thus the other grey area was a SBR in parts form, like an Uzi carbine and a Uzi SMG barrel. A lower court had held in a prior case that that set of parts was a SBR. The court agreed; that if the parts had only one use, to make a SBR, and a person possessed them all that was a SBR also.

The court's decision and opinions can be seen at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/thompson.txt

Note even the dissenters did not hold with all the government's arguements. From http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/tc.html,website for Stephen Holbrook, attorney for TC in this case)

White stated that no one, not even the dumbest criminal, would have any reason to make a Contender short-barreled rifle. Kennedy could not understand why a complete pistol and a complete carbine would not be a short-barreled rifle, but that these items would be such a rifle if disassembled, a position the government attorney made up on the spot.