Rifle to pistol build and our gubmint re XP100

[TAJ45]

The Unsub is an XP action. It was last used as a bench gun. Converting a rifle to pistol is a no no as we all know.

The buyer's legitimate concern had to do with him converting it back into a pistol. Where does the Guv stand on this?
Same question with the TCs et al.
To my knowledge, the XP action was never a rifle offering. Would that have any bearing?

I can't blame a fellow shooter one bit about being shy about this.

I have a common sense opinion on this but does anyone have any first hand info?

 

[Preacher]

No problem at all with turning it back into a handgun as long as it is registered as a handgun..

 

[TAJ45]

No problem at all with turning it back into a handgun as long as it is registered as a handgun..

Makes sense. Not that the average, run of the mill shop owner would know, but I had an Encore registered as "pistol" so I could swing both sides of the street.
Is this ATF's stance?

 

[dcali]

Makes sense.

Lets not go crazy.

 

[TRA]

The ATF stance? Once a rifle always a rifle. Pistol to rifle is okay. Pistol to rifle back to pistol not okay. Then there is reality. Keep it over 16" barrel and 26" oal and it does not matter what you call it. If the XP was converted to a rifle and thus documented as a rifle then you will have issues converting it back legally.

When's the last time anyone was approached about whether his XP or Encore was converted and converted back? Unless it was involved in a crime how would anyone have a clue? Now if you took a 700 action and built a pistol, anyone with any sense would know they never were a pistol and may ask for your ATF authorization and tax stamp.

The whole designated action nonsense is silly. How the hell would anyone have a clue what it says on a 4473 ?

 

[DOGCAPPER]

I bought an empty receiver from MOA.
The information sent with it was:
First build a rifle always a rifle.
Rebuild into a hand gun required meeting rifle to hand gun rules.
18" barrel 23" overall length. These numbers may not be exact but are close. A gunsmith will know.
First build into hand gun register as a hand gun.
If it goes to a rifle ok. Must meet rifle to handgun rules if returned to handgun.

 

[TAJ45]

Lets not go crazy.

The ATF stance? Once a rifle always a rifle. Pistol to rifle is okay. Pistol to rifle back to pistol not okay. Then there is reality. Keep it over 16" barrel and 26" oal and it does not matter what you call it. If the XP was converted to a rifle and thus documented as a rifle then you will have issues converting it back legally.

When's the last time anyone was approached about whether his XP or Encore was converted and converted back? Unless it was involved in a crime how would anyone have a clue? Now if you took a 700 action and built a pistol, anyone with any sense would know they never were a pistol and may ask for your ATF authorization and tax stamp.

The whole designated action nonsense is silly. How the hell would anyone have a clue what it says on a 4473 ?

I have to agree with you on the 4473 unless the rifle pistol was required info when the BG check was called in.
Buuutttttt, if a CWP holder, then no call in required in my last two states of residence. Therefore, the info is buried in some semi obscure, 4-5 gun sales a week, emporium.
I just have to keep telling myself it's for the "Greater Good" - right? Josef Stalin did a lot for the "Greater Good" - his. How many million of his countrymen did he murder?

 

[Dans40X]

XP-100 manufactured/4473 transferred as a handgun.
Re-worked to a rifle configuration.
IF,IF,IF,IF-
The rifle was not sold through an FFL w/ 4473 transfer
Convert it back to pistol.

IF,IF,IF,IF-
You are unclear of any definition,WALK AWAY!!!

Stupidity is not an excuse when dealing with the US Gov't.

 

[TAJ45]

[QUOTE="Dans40X, post: 36965485, member:
Stupidity is not an excuse when dealing with the US Gov't.[/QUOTE]

You be absolutely right . . . I just wished it was a reciprocal situation.

 

[NorCalMikie]

When it comes to the XP 100, it's a pistol. Mine WAS a pistol but now it's mounted in a thumb hole rifle stock with a 24" heavy barrell and if I ever get the urge, it may be a pistol again. (probably will never be converted back because it's WAY TOO ACCURATE the way it is!!)
And, my bet is that most gunsmiths don't really know the difference (rifle/pistol) unless they've built one and know the in's and outs of the rules.
And when it comes to building a "pistol" out of a rifle action, BATF says that if the barrel is at least 16" long and the OAL of the rig is at least 26" long, it's still a rifle, no matter what it looks like.
I have that in writing and keep it in my range bag, just in case. Not sure what it is about that and those measurements that folks don't understand?
The only issue I've heard of is if you're hunting with your "pistol" rig. Some states say no to the pistol thing.

 

[TAJ45]

When it comes to the XP 100, it's a pistol. Mine WAS a pistol but now it's mounted in a thumb hole rifle stock with a 24" heavy barrell and if I ever get the urge, it may be a pistol again. (probably will never be converted back because it's WAY TOO ACCURATE the way it is!!)
And, my bet is that most gunsmiths don't really know the difference (rifle/pistol) unless they've built one and know the in's and outs of the rules.
And when it comes to building a "pistol" out of a rifle action, BATF says that if the barrel is at least 16" long and the OAL of the rig is at least 26" long, it's still a rifle, no matter what it looks like.
I have that in writing and keep it in my range bag, just in case. Not sure what it is about that and those measurements that folks don't understand?
The only issue I've heard of is if you're hunting with your "pistol" rig. Some states say no to the pistol thing.

NCMikie, the sticking point would be switching BACK to the pistol configuration, say a 14" bbl, pistol stock.

 

[Nvreloader]

TAJ45
The XP-100 action/pistol was ORIGINALLY made as a pistol,
when it left the REM factory. You can convert a rifle into a pistol,
with these stipulations, per AFT/NFA rules.
Pull up these rules and read about short bbl'd pistols/rifles etc.

Barrel length MUST BE at least 16+" long total overall length,
from bolt face to end of the bbl,
and MUST HAVE a total overall length of AT LEAST 26",
end to end, from grip to bbl.

I took my SP pistol into the Reno ATF office to show them,
what I had planned on doing with it,
per them they said as long as the above info for bbl length and total overall length was met, it was a NOT short bbl's rifle, as it could be used in a rifle stock.

This info has been discussed MANY times, and several members have ATF letters with this info, on our SP site,
http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/eve/forums

I forgot a word.......

Tia,
Don

 

[Eddie Harren]

"Free Internet Legal Advice" Worth exactly what you pay for it.

 

[SheepDog]

If the gun was originally made as a pistol and then used a longer barrel and a shoulder stock to make it into a rifle then you can use pistol parts to return it to a pistol. If it was originally made as a rifle it can not be converted into a pistol. (it becomes a short barreled rifle or "other Weapon") according to ATF Rule 2011-4

 

[TRA]

"Free Internet Legal Advice" Worth exactly what you pay for it.

Most paid legal advice obtained face to face with a lawyer is worthless. When it comes to guns a determination in writing from the ATF is the only thing that has a chance of holding any weight. The Federal firearms laws are rather brief. It's the states laws that can burn you.

 

[TAJ45]

Sheepdog, this makes the most sense to me. Will have to see what Da Alphabet Boys will put into writing.

 

[NorCalMikie]

If "the barrel" in at least 16" long, it IS NOT a short barreled rifle!! If you're dealing with a "rifle action" and building it into what we are calling a pistol, anything shorter than 16" makes it a SBR. If it was born as a pistol (XP 100 action), makes no difference how long the barrel is.


(Sheepdog, this makes the most sense to me. Will have to see what Da Alphabet Boys will put into writing.)

Take a copy of the July 25,2011 letter with you from the BATF and let them try to explane it to you.
Read it yourself a "few" times, let it sink in, they go in loaded for bear.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I took my SP pistol into the Reno ATF office to show them, what I had planned on doing with it, per them they said as long as the above info for bbl length and total overall length was met, it was a short bbl's rifle, as it could be used in a rifle stock.

Either THEY are full of crap OR you got mixed up. If the barrel is at least 16" long, IT IS NOT A SBR. Anything shorter than 16" and you're looking for BATF trouble.
And as far as the SP site? they don't want to talk about the rifle to pistol thing.

 

[people]

When you buy a ar-15 receiver. It is transferred as a receiver.
Build it as a pistol first.
Then you can make it a rifle and then switch back and forth as you see fit. The catch is when a handgun it needs all of those features them when a rifle it needs the rifle features.

Build it as a rifle first and you are stuck with a rifle.

 

[TRA]

When you buy a ar-15 receiver. It is transferred as a receiver.
Build it as a pistol first.
Then you can make it a rifle and then switch back and forth as you see fit. The catch is when a handgun it needs all of those features them when a rifle it needs the rifle features.

Build it as a rifle first and you are stuck with a rifle.

I seriously doubt that will fly for a private citizen. Once again, who's gonna know as long as it's never transferred? But, being a consumer and claiming it was a pistol first, with that fact not being established or of record, you could be on thin ice.