Having been reading your forum for many month's and I got hook on long distance shooting.I am new to this website.I am in the process of purchasing a Gunwerks LR-1000 shooting system,and was fairly convinced on selecting the 7mm RemMag.The bullet was of Berger VLD,168gr,3025 fps, B/C .617,251/2" barrel with a 1"-10" twist. RemMag shell.This shooter/bullet combo is said to be good to 1000 yards +.Well I got to looking at the Norma 6.5-284,140 Berger VLD 140 grain,B/C .640,3000 fps 1"-9" twist barrel in the GunWerks it too can run to a 1000 yards not sure of either impact speed at target but I believe the RemMag was around 2000 fps.Question? Should I select the Norma over the RemMag,if I plan on shooting alot at the range for a year or so,been a long time since I was shooting.Would the Norma perform better at the range than the RemMag,givin density and wind,temp of Texas,also if for resale if I do not like it or what to upgrade to something else should I stick with the 7mm.? Thoughts
Rifle selection
- Thread starter Bravo25
- Start date
Bravo25,
First off, there is no way in HELL I would pay Gunwerks a dime to build anything for me! Defiantly not $7000.00! I enjoy watching Best of the West for a laugh. They claim that they are the best longrange shooters in the country, but I’ve never seen or heard of one of them at a LR Match. You need to go back to the home page and look at the recommended Gunsmiths. Pick one and there prices will be close to the prices below. You buy the parts and they’ll do the work. Any of them can build a rifle that will shoot circles around anything that Gunwerks has ever done. You can get by cheaper than the prices below.
BAT Machine Model HRPIC $1,400.00
BAT Machine 30MM 20MOA Rings $115.00
Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56mm w/ Zero Stops $1,900.00
Match Grade SS Barrel Blank $300.00
McMillan Stock $700.00
Jewell Trigger HVR $205.00
Action Bedding Job $200.00
Barrel Chambered in most anything you want $250.00
Total Approx. $5,100.00! You save $1,900.00
A .300 Magnum of some sort would be my choice.
Baron Graham
First off, there is no way in HELL I would pay Gunwerks a dime to build anything for me! Defiantly not $7000.00! I enjoy watching Best of the West for a laugh. They claim that they are the best longrange shooters in the country, but I’ve never seen or heard of one of them at a LR Match. You need to go back to the home page and look at the recommended Gunsmiths. Pick one and there prices will be close to the prices below. You buy the parts and they’ll do the work. Any of them can build a rifle that will shoot circles around anything that Gunwerks has ever done. You can get by cheaper than the prices below.
BAT Machine Model HRPIC $1,400.00
BAT Machine 30MM 20MOA Rings $115.00
Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56mm w/ Zero Stops $1,900.00
Match Grade SS Barrel Blank $300.00
McMillan Stock $700.00
Jewell Trigger HVR $205.00
Action Bedding Job $200.00
Barrel Chambered in most anything you want $250.00
Total Approx. $5,100.00! You save $1,900.00
A .300 Magnum of some sort would be my choice.
Baron Graham
+1 Baron
Hes right not only are the best of the west guys a big joke, but you can git alot nicer gun build with way more caliber options. Start maybe we a smaller caliber for varmint hunting and work your way up to a bigger caliber. Last year my buddy and I went to the big outdoor show in our area where the best of the west guys had a booth, ya there gun was nice but way over priced. They claim to be the best but when we started asking him all kinda of questions about his gun he got all nervse and kept answering doesnt it say on the gunj and so on. Save yourself some money and have a real gunsmith build you exactly what you want!
Hillbilly
Hes right not only are the best of the west guys a big joke, but you can git alot nicer gun build with way more caliber options. Start maybe we a smaller caliber for varmint hunting and work your way up to a bigger caliber. Last year my buddy and I went to the big outdoor show in our area where the best of the west guys had a booth, ya there gun was nice but way over priced. They claim to be the best but when we started asking him all kinda of questions about his gun he got all nervse and kept answering doesnt it say on the gunj and so on. Save yourself some money and have a real gunsmith build you exactly what you want!
Hillbilly
Larryh128
Silver $$ Contributor
Personally both calibers are great but I would look at which one has the best barrel life. 6.5 x 284 has great numbers but are reported to see the accuarcy go south 1200-1500 rounds. That's the only fact that has kept me from building one. 7mm Mag???? But I'm sure there are lots of guys here with a bunch of 7 mag experience.
bravo- the prices baron quoted are conservative ever so slightly. a gun built with those will shoot unbelievably. no one i know shoots a 10 twist 7mm. a 9 twist or a 9 1/8. the gun is more important than the caliber. i have a 300, 7mm and a 6.5 all are on rem actions. the custom actions like a bat shoot even better.
HillbillySniper said:
Hello,
My name is Aaron Davidson, I own Gunwerks. I just wanted to clarify that we have no affiliation with Best of the West, although we did historically.
This topic of cost is one that was fleshed out well on longrangehunting.com, and its one we see occasionally. The real difference in the product cost is in the details. Most of the time we see a build list as above, things such as bottom metal and metal finishing are neglected. Not to mention break in, and accuracy validation, ballistic profiling, custom turret engraving, ammo, etc. Many people would rather spend their limited time resources shooting and practicing, so we do the set up work for them.
We work on all types of customer rifles, setting them up for long range. Again, just providing a service. We also build budget rifle systems. Our pricing schedule should have a product that will fit any budget.
Best Regards,
Aaron Davidson
Gunwerks, LLC.
280man,we will move to texas sometime in the next 2 years.This will be part of my retirement plan.But I would like to say something about this site which I found rather distasteful.My question was in reference to ammo selection for the caliber of the rifle I am purchasing from GunWerks.I know not to much about shooting at a 1000 yards,and my only schooling was in the USMC.With the M-14,shooting 7.62 ammo.I guess what I am saying is that I enjoying shooting long distance,and wholehearty support any one shooter or gunsmith who supports such a great joy for many across the United States.I found Aaron very approachable and was very interested in my hobby,he showed we low cost as well as expensive shooting systems as well.But being the down to earth kinda guy that over the 2 days,and phone calls I believe him and his product and selected what we thought was the best for my shooting now and into the future.Though I am not a gunsmith nor have a engineering background like Aaron.So I hope that by asking him to take time out of his day (much like he has done in great detail on Long Range's website on price breakdown)he would respond to you all with greater detail and spec's in which I am slowly starting to learn.I wish to thank Aaron,and if you have any question,about this shooting system please call him or email him.My question was the ammo selection.Not my rifle selection thank you all for your input and I will continued to read the valuable articles that are posted on this website,in which help me understand this fastinating sport of long distance shooting.Regards Bravo25
Roninflag,
Those prices might vary a little throughout the country. They are pretty close to what my Smith Charges (Leonard Baity).
The Rifle + 42x NF BR in this picture Cost $4,350.00 w/ Baity’s Muzzle Break that is not on the barrel at the time of the picture.
Aaron,
“The real difference in the product cost is in the details. Most of the time we see a build list as above, things such as bottom metal and metal finishing are neglected.” Ok a PT&G SS Oberndorf Bottom Metal is $200.00 and $150.00 Bead Blasted finish! That still leaves us with $1,650. Of course I could go with a cheaper $1,000 Action closer to the Gunwurks LR1000 action and save another $500.00.
“Not to mention break in, and accuracy validation, ballistic profiling, custom turret engraving, ammo, etc.” Barrel Break in my opinion with a custom hand lapped barrel is HIGHLY OVER RATED! Although I do it, no more than 30 rounds are required and to be sure it was done, I’d do it myself. Accuracy Validation and Ballistic Profiling are what? A 3 or 5 shot group and a ballistic chart. This can all be done by the owner while “Many people would rather spend their limited time resources shooting and practicing” Custom Turret Engraving is a joke also! With the Bullet Drop Chart taped inside of the Butler Creek Flip Up cover, I can make corrections for drop and hold just as fast as you can with the Engraved Turret/MIL hold.
Here is some Accuracy Validation for Ya!
Those prices might vary a little throughout the country. They are pretty close to what my Smith Charges (Leonard Baity).
The Rifle + 42x NF BR in this picture Cost $4,350.00 w/ Baity’s Muzzle Break that is not on the barrel at the time of the picture.
Aaron,
“The real difference in the product cost is in the details. Most of the time we see a build list as above, things such as bottom metal and metal finishing are neglected.” Ok a PT&G SS Oberndorf Bottom Metal is $200.00 and $150.00 Bead Blasted finish! That still leaves us with $1,650. Of course I could go with a cheaper $1,000 Action closer to the Gunwurks LR1000 action and save another $500.00.
“Not to mention break in, and accuracy validation, ballistic profiling, custom turret engraving, ammo, etc.” Barrel Break in my opinion with a custom hand lapped barrel is HIGHLY OVER RATED! Although I do it, no more than 30 rounds are required and to be sure it was done, I’d do it myself. Accuracy Validation and Ballistic Profiling are what? A 3 or 5 shot group and a ballistic chart. This can all be done by the owner while “Many people would rather spend their limited time resources shooting and practicing” Custom Turret Engraving is a joke also! With the Bullet Drop Chart taped inside of the Butler Creek Flip Up cover, I can make corrections for drop and hold just as fast as you can with the Engraved Turret/MIL hold.
Here is some Accuracy Validation for Ya!
Bravo25,
First I would like to thank you for your Military service. I am sorry if you have found anything that I typed to be distasteful. I just don’t want you to spend more of your hard earned money than necessary to get what you want.
To answer your original question. Both the 6.5-284 and the 7mm RM will have an accurate barrel life from 900 to 1500 rounds. If I wanted a 7mm for LR work I’d probably choice the .284 Winchester or the .284 Shehane Throated for the Berger VLD and using the 6.5-284 Lapua Case. The .284 Shehane will run the 180 VLD right at around 2900 -3000 fps. The 7mmRM will not do a much faster and will burn considerably more gun powder.
Baron Graham
First I would like to thank you for your Military service. I am sorry if you have found anything that I typed to be distasteful. I just don’t want you to spend more of your hard earned money than necessary to get what you want.
To answer your original question. Both the 6.5-284 and the 7mm RM will have an accurate barrel life from 900 to 1500 rounds. If I wanted a 7mm for LR work I’d probably choice the .284 Winchester or the .284 Shehane Throated for the Berger VLD and using the 6.5-284 Lapua Case. The .284 Shehane will run the 180 VLD right at around 2900 -3000 fps. The 7mmRM will not do a much faster and will burn considerably more gun powder.
Baron Graham
Aaron said:
Well good to hear your not with the best of the west anymore! But IMHO id have to disagree with you, for me the whole part of building a new gun is gitting to do all the homework and time of reloading for it and knowing your gun. That's great that you do all of that but id rather save myself a couple thousand dollars and do that all of that myself. As far as the bottom metal and polishing goes ya people (myself included) let stuff like that slide but those are all things you can do down the road! Besides id rather have an ugly lights out hammer than a beautiful expensive tomato stake.
Hillbilly
+1 for the 284 Shehane but anything else in that capacity class such as the 280AI will get you into the 2900-3000 fps range with something like 1800 to 2400 accurate rounds depending on your style of shooting. You could put yourself closer to 3000 fps with a 7mmRSAUM but I don't think you need a case as large as a 7mmRemMag to get competitive 1000 yard performance with a 7mm. I have also heard great things about the 6.5X55AI from an excellent 1000 yard shooter I know who has tried just about everything else.
Bravo25, Check around and get several opinions for a custom gun . Talk to the gunsmiths that are recomended on this site . If you have unlimited funds go with gunworks, sounds like they will do everything for you. Get some references. I myself would pick a gunsmith that shoots benchrest and a proven record holder that can explain the what and why to you about shooting. In my honest opinion I dont see aron davidsons name on any longrange records. but that doesnt mean he cant get lucky !
top gunsmiths= http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/gunsmithing/gunsmiths/
top gunsmiths= http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/gunsmithing/gunsmiths/
Thank-you all for your imput in this ammo selection.Also,though this rifle will be used for large game shooting as well.So impact speed at target across canyon walls with a possible varing wind speeds and direction also must be taking into consideration.For the aim behind this weapon system as well is to drop this animal quickly as well.
Bravo 25:
Congratulations on your Gunwerks purchase! I am sure you made Aaron very happy. As many have touched upon their prices make me cringe. For the life of me I could never understand how anyone could pay these inflated amounts. Your comments and statements have now shed light on the market Gunwerks preys on.
These guys, first with the "Best of the West" show and now with their new show "Long Range Pursuit"(trying to keep up with the characters and equipment is a challenge in itself) have created a perverse game of "shooting" at animals and call it hunting. Make no mistake, these shows are nothing more than, in my view, an unethical use of game animals as a way to sell overpriced "shooting" packages!
As has been said above, you will not see Aaron or his brother in any record book. David Tubb is seen on the new show and for that I am left dumbstruck. Oh well? Of course, what you won't see on this show are PAPER targets with 5 shot groups at the ranges and in the conditions that they are shooting at game animals. You are evidence that this is not necessary to sell their overpriced product.
In closing, please be patient and take the time to learn how to shoot accurately at reduced distances and don't subject majestic game animals to you new found interest in longrange "shooting."
Congratulations on your Gunwerks purchase! I am sure you made Aaron very happy. As many have touched upon their prices make me cringe. For the life of me I could never understand how anyone could pay these inflated amounts. Your comments and statements have now shed light on the market Gunwerks preys on.
These guys, first with the "Best of the West" show and now with their new show "Long Range Pursuit"(trying to keep up with the characters and equipment is a challenge in itself) have created a perverse game of "shooting" at animals and call it hunting. Make no mistake, these shows are nothing more than, in my view, an unethical use of game animals as a way to sell overpriced "shooting" packages!
As has been said above, you will not see Aaron or his brother in any record book. David Tubb is seen on the new show and for that I am left dumbstruck. Oh well? Of course, what you won't see on this show are PAPER targets with 5 shot groups at the ranges and in the conditions that they are shooting at game animals. You are evidence that this is not necessary to sell their overpriced product.
In closing, please be patient and take the time to learn how to shoot accurately at reduced distances and don't subject majestic game animals to you new found interest in longrange "shooting."
Actually,Jim to be honest with you I am very happy,can't vouche for Aaron,and as far as your shooting at animals,I have never seen Aaron nor his brother waste any meat,most of those expanded back backs were full and very little left for wolves to eat.As far unethical use of animals again did not quite catch your drift,but each to his own comments, every one got one buddy.Never every heard Aaron nor anyone at GunWerks say we are making weapon systems design for record breaking F-class shooting,so go fiqure on your stretch of Aaron or my statement's on this topic.No one is forcing you to go hunting buddy.As far as Dave Tubbs have not seen the video.Before you go head first into the pond you better give them a call and as them these questions,you might be surprised at your answer.Also Aaron and his brother all great conservatives and have always had a great respect for game animals and support habitat recovery and support of wildlife both were raised in Wy.And I never said as soon as I got the weapon I was going out to drop a Elk at 1000 yards,try not to over react it makes you look stupid.No disrespect,again just asking about ammo selection
Gee JimT its about ammo selection,not about the english langauge.If you have some input into the topic,try sticking to it rather than trying to slam someone's rifle or there use of the rifle when you know nothing of the person personally.Me,I don't really care about what shooting system anyone here has.And I don't make a point out if someone error's on his response.I pretty much can read between the line's as to what someone is stating.It wasn't rocket making what I was pointing out to your response.Noboby at GunWerks has a disrespect for the outdoors,nor do I.I am a member of many wildlife conservation,Elk,Salmon,Trout.And contribute to these cause's yearly.As far as the stupid "again it was to your response to my post" and accusing or implying that Aaron or myself kill unethically game animals.I think you understand know what I am trying to say.Again also it's about the ammo selection not what you have drifted too.
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