rifle hold

[jaybray]

Just curious if anyone else shoots with the rifle pinned against the front rest stop. My 8 twist 6br will not shoot free recoil no matter what I try. I tried 2 different rear bags with different levels of hardness and same with the front bag. Hard hold is also no good. Always a flyer or verticle. Pinned against the front stop with only my trigger finger touching works very well. I wish it would shoot free recoil. Anyone else shoot pinned?

 

[Patch700]

If you are only contacting the rifle via the trigger I would say you are shooting free recoil...

 

[jaybray]

Yes but by pinned I mean pushed against the front stop with shoulder pressure and keep the pressure there.

 

[JRS]

If you have too much pressure against the stock, and tight against the stop, the gun isn't going to recoil very well, and could quite possibly be upsetting the front rest.

 

[LHSmith]

Many shortrange BR competitors employ the "pinning" technique. Having a heavy front rest with the leg points firmly in the bench top is essential for this method. IIRC, Mike Ratigan stated in his book that he had made the transition to this method from free recoil. If your muscle memory is good enough to maintain a consistent pin pressure, it might work for you.
As Patch pointed out, you need "some" amount of shoulder pressure on the buttstock to pin.
I used to shoot with only the trigger finger, but it was suggested to use my thumb to just slightly brush the stock to help anchor the shooting hand...it helped my consistency.

 

[DeltaBravo]

jay,

What gun/barrel/load are you using and how did you work up to it? What powders/bullets are you shooting?

When I went with my 8-twist 6BR I started out with 87 grain V-maxes and it would not shoot!! After trying many different powders/loads/seating depths, I gave up at 200 rounds and went with the 80 grain Berger FB Varmint. That solved the problem for me and that thing would shoot just about anything! When I removed that barrel, it had 2000 rounds thru it and it shot a .077 group (3 shots) at the last competition before retirement, and it would shoot free or pinned.

Dennis

 

[jaybray]

Thanks guys. I too am using 80 bergers with 30.6 grains of varget. Shooting free recoil with mild downward thumb pressure on the tang works ok also but I always seem to get a shot out of the group. I am using homemade wind flags. Pinned to the front stop just seems to work with my rifle as I can shoot tiny little groups with this method and seems fairly consistent. I guess if it aint broke don't fix it but I sure would prefer shooting free recoil. When I pin this rifle against the front stop, I pin It pretty hard with my shoulder also.

 

[jaybray]

The rifle is a 6br 8 twist Krieger, bat sv action with a pillar bedded low rider stock. Front end heavy maybe?

 

[Patch700]

Yes but by pinned I mean pushed against the front stop with shoulder pressure and keep the pressure there.

My apologies , I read it as you were merely returning to battery and then only had finger contact..

I feel your pain , I remember a particular rifle I had with an F class stock that tracked ok but was extremely sensitive to position in the bags and I was forcing the rifle to shoot free recoil.

At one point I had a separate target set up used for merely fouling rounds , one thing I was doing differently when running foulers was I was Pinning as you say the fore end to the stop with the lightest of shoulder pressure and I was also laying my thumb across the tang.

The rifle shot like it was really in tune and from that day forward that is how I shot that rifle... I was too stubborn to let go of the free recoil method for that rifle and it bit me in the rear end.

For me I had to let the paper tell the story as I was stubborn lol

Good luck.

 

[LHSmith]

You found a system that seems to works for your gun......go with it. One thing going for you with the pinning method, you won't get those half-moon dents in your forehead that are often accompanied with red blobs dripping past your shooting eye as you finish your record target.

 

[jaybray]

Ill just keep her pinned. Thanks for the reply's.

 

[bblackwell]

In Tony Boyer's book there is a picture of his front rest. It appears he has something wrapped around the front stop . It looks like the soft side of a velcro strip. My guess is he might be using that to dampen vibrations , if he actually uses that method.

 

[LHSmith]

Actually it's beneficial to wrap the fore-end stop with something soft no matter what your shooting style. Velcro felt is a good choice. The reasoning behind it, I believe, is it prevents you from pushing the stock into the stop and having the stock bounce back creating a small gap. With the "cushion", it is easier to maintain intimate contact with the stop with less finesse about return to battery.

 

[Bob Sebold]

Yes, set a national record that way.

 

[Shynloco]

If I may suggest, it strikes me that no matter what bullet you are using or the load, you are going to have to find a suitable shooting hold that works for any rifle you are shooting in a particular disciple. Now I can say from experience, we have all "played" with various positions of how we set the rifle on the rest, and where we set our rear bags, even to the extreme of trying different bags bot on the front rest as well as our rear bag and where we set the rear bag in terms of the position of contact on the rear portion of the stock.

Like you, I always makes sure the front of the forend is pushed (pinned if you will) against the front stop for every shot taken. To that, I even tested putting a round rubber over the hardened plastic stop to see if that helped. I wasn't happy with that so I went back to using the plastic covered stop. I have changed the material on the bags I use and they all now have the "Super Slick" material used by many of the top serious competitors in Benchrest shooting. And that's both the rest bag(s) and the rear bag. As for how hard the rifle is held in place on the front bags, I tighten the side adjusters hard against the forend of the stock and then back off enough to allow the rifle to smoothly side back and forth on the front and rear bags. Too tight is no good (doesn't allow for natural recoil) and not too loose allowing for slop.

And as for recoil, rifles must be allowed to recoil in a straight line (and return to battery), so I slightly lean into the rifle stock pad, but not hard enough to forcefully pin the rifle against the front stop. That is something that each shooter has to develop in terms of a "feel". As for my shooting hand (the only hand touching any part of the rifle itself), I wrap my little finger plus 2 more lightly around the stock area below and behind the trigger guard with my trigger finger inside the trigger guard lightly touching the trigger so as to only having light contact with the trigger, light enough to feel it, but not strong enough to pull the trigger until I'm ready to "send it."

This is a summary of what I find works for me shooting any of my BR rifles including my 6mmbr which has a 1:8 Kreiger MG Barrel from which I "dispatch" 68 gr Bart's bullets being pushed by VVN133 when shooting 100 yds, which is all I do anymore. Hope some of this is useful to you as I can assure you it took me several years of "playing around" to come up with this "system" that produces me some very good and accurate results, mostly in the low 1's (and less) shooting 5 shot groups. Having done so, I am also convinced the rifle shoots better that I am capable, despite the 50+ yrs I've been shooting weapons of all sorts. In short, I am aware that the weakest link in my system, is me the shooter. Just stating reality. And as another poster stated, might want to read Mike Ratigan's (or Tony Boyer's) book on Accuracy Shooting that might give you some additional ideas.

Good luck and have fun.

Alex

 

[jaybray]

Hey shynloco thanks. For whatever reason I can not get this particular rifle to shoot with it recoiling straight back with any consistency. I push it against the front stop with enough force that the rest is close to moving forward. When the trigger is pulled the muzzle actually jumps up when fired. The thing is, It still shoots very well. It is very possible it is me or my inferior set up that is creating problems when shooting free recoil. I have only 200 rounds through this barrel so I will try a few more groups free recoil and compare.

 

[PGS]

You mention that the rifle might be top heavy, that could be your problem shooting free recoil.
Maybe need to balance the rifle with lead in the stock

 

[LHSmith]

^^^^^ If the gun barrel jumps up, that is probably the case. IIRC, the proper balance point is ~2" from the barrel/action junction (toward the muzzle). Would be interesting to check and give us feedback. I assume you have experimented with the amount of forend overhand from the front bag, and placement of the rear bag.

 

[Shynloco]

Both gunny and LH have a good point. First off, if you are out of "balance," true free recoil won't work. And what you describe sounds like your balance isn't quite there. I've seen folks who use true "free recoil" sometimes put a small weighted lead cyclinder in the stock of their rifle to assist in that balance. Other methods are available as well, but I've never done that myself so I ain't the guy to help you with that. But as far as balance goes, try this (as LH suggests). Allow the forend portion of the stock of your rifle to CLEAR the front rest bag by 2". You may have to adjust the stop. Then on the back portion of the stock butt, allow that to clear the rear bag by 2" also. Shoot the rifle in this position and see if the "jumping" subsides. If not, then you'll have to "BALANCE" the rifle a bit better to offset the weight difference from front to back. That rifle SHOULD NOT be jumping up as you describe, especially for a 6br. Now if this was a 300 Win Mag, WITHOUT a suppressor, I could understand. But I've shot a balanced 300 Custom Win Mag with a suppressor and she don't jump hardly at all and slides as smooth as silk. But if your 6br still wants to go a jumpin up, you'll have to figure out how you want to balance her. And I can tell you there are plenty of very successful 6br shooter on this blog who can definitely help you in making adjustments to the stock balance weight factor. And a consideration might also be in buying a stock that has the capability of adding weights to a pocket that is already bored into it.

Good luck and keep at it. Your problem can be corrected so you can concentrate on laying down some nice clean and accurate targets to your liking.

Alex

 

[jaybray]

Excellent information here. Next time at the range ill lay some lead shot in a bag or something on the rear stock and try free recoil again. That should take care of any muzzle heavy issues if it has them. I have tried the stock overhang in many different configs and where im at now seems best. The more the front of the stock hangs over the front rest, the worse free recoil gets.