Ricochet or Deflection Risk off Steel Targets

[Centuriator]

I've been shooting steel plates for years, and intensely so in many handgun and carbine classes, and occasionally a piece of spalling will catch me in the face, nothing serious, but...it does happen and that's why you quickly realize: eye-pro is a good thing. I've had it happen far more often with handgun rounds, than 5.56, etc.

If the steel plate is not high quality, thick hardened steel, this is where the problems really start, when a plate become pitted badly then is when you can have real problems with rifle rounds. I saw a guy shoot a pitted plate with his AR and a huge piece of spall flew off it and past him and completely shattered his rear window on his truck.

 

[fyrewall]

I shoot steel.

I have observed sparks flying off and down from steel at night that might make for fire danger so the area under the steel has to be weed free. I have put out burning debris under bullet traps.
Plates should be free swinging or pivoting back or not rigidly fixed to deflect bullet fragments down or off to some safe spot - never seen any intact bullets or even fragments - just dust at impact.
Bullet strikes on hard, soft or mild steel make for flying debris enough to pit the chains holding the target and deep craters on mild steel.

At my range somebody propped up a 3/8 - 1/2 inch thick mild steel plate at 300 yards at 60* - 70* from horizontal and if some penetrating 5.56 bullet hit it on a secondary bounce there could be a ricochet that could go up and off to one side and land on either of 2 ranges at each side of the side berm. Somebody fortunately tossed the massive heavy plate behind the backer berm.

I shoot handguns at a 1.5 inch thick and 10 inch round piece of swinging aluminum using soft plated lead bullets at low velocities and have not experienced any stuff coming back at me (yet) - just shallow divots. The term "spall" is a good description of this - all sorts of stuff could come flying back. Upon shooting a mild steel plate at 10 yards with a 125 grain .357 jacketed load some steel "spall" about 1/32 " thick by 1/4 " long, crescent shaped got me just under my ball cap, about 1 inch above protective eye wear - stuck out from me like a thorn - no more zippy handgun loads at mild steel. The steel pop up targets are hardened and apparently are more resistant to this.

 

[426nut]

This one.

 

[243winxb]

Avoid plates with pock marks at any & all distances.

My 8" target.

 

[BountyHunter]

At Fort AP Hill VA we had multiple bullets come back across the firing line, go another 300 meters AND then go thru the metal walls of a warehouse. Closest target to the firing line was 250 meters so they went back 180 degrees for minimum of 550 meters and then thru a wall. They were found on the floor still warm by workers that heard them hit. We did not have any rocks, metal or concrete down range before or after that we could find. People like to think that the bullets break, or just go poof, but not so much. the Army did doppler radar tests and found they went more like the old fireworks fountains: up, back, left, right and every which way and much further than expected. That is why Army and Marine range fans changed from the old V shaped snow cone.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

I have been part of 10s of 1000s of bullets being shot at steel from 300y past 1600y and have never seen one come back let alone stay intack after hitting a steel plate. Handguns are completly different and i dont shoot where they are using handguns to shoot at any steel, i dont care how the steel is setup. I hit my son standing behind me in the stomach with a rickhocet from my 357 from around 60y and i will never forget that moment that piece of lead/copper came whizzing back past me and hit him in the stomach.

 

[Ballisticboy]

What has been done or seen before is only relevant to safety when trying to calculate the chance of a certain event happening, it does not mean that something cannot happen. For example, a private boat outside the official safety trace had never been hit by a 4.5" shell, until the day it happened. It all comes down to are you happy with a one in a million chance of something happening or do you want an absolute safety trace? When it comes to gun safety I lean towards the latter. If it is your life or the life of one of your family, what chance are you willing to accept?

 

[wwbrown]

This one.

I believe this is a spoof, hard to imagine almost identical path after the bullet has lost so much energy both before it hits the steel and the energy it loses during its impact with the steel. In addition I would imagine the bullet would be quite deformed. I think it is deformed as an armor piercing bullet would have done just that pierced the plate and not ricocheted.

Just my 2 cents,
wade

 

[PRR1957]

I believe this is a spoof, hard to imagine almost identical path after the bullet has lost so much energy both before it hits the steel and the energy it loses during its impact with the steel. In addition I would imagine the bullet would be quite deformed. I think it is deformed as an armor piercing bullet would have done just that pierced the plate and not ricocheted.

Just my 2 cents,
wade

It is real. The deflected bullet impacts the ground to the left and about 10’ in-front of the shooter.

 

[Sniper338]

I shoot on steel quite a bit. I have to respectfully disagree with the above that full weight bullets are found or close to full weight bullets slightly deformed. I always look and there is only small shards of copper and lead even out past 1 mile. I have not found one intact bullet that hit the steel.

Just my experience.

Never found one in tact either they shatter and shards go downward at longer ranges..

Up close steel for handguns and angled gor shards to go downward too if they are made right. Also there are frangable rounds for up close steel shooting... its all relatively safe if done right..

 

[Rsadams]

From the time I was a very small child and my grandfather was teaching me how to shoot he said never shoot at rocks or steel... Now it's what everyone is doing , I still don't feel comfortable so unless it's rifle and a ways away I don't... I have been hit on pistol ranges by people doing it over the years... Last time we setup a steel challenge , basically plates , at my local range there was stuff flying and it didn't take long for the guys to put their safety glasses back on even though they were away from it...

 

[fyrewall]

Of interest to me. From shooting probably over 1500 rounds last year at hard steel targets at 300 yards and probably another 10 times as many from other shooters, I have yet to see an intact bullet or recognizable bullet fragment under the hard steel plates that are not rigidly fixed. My guess is that some of the bullets had steel penetrator cores, logically you would not expect the steel bullet core to completely disintegrate but I could not find any, possibly I did not look hard enough - this summer when the snow is gone and the range is not busy I will try again with my building site clean-up magnet (trolling for fragments).

When it is dark enough I can see sparks upon impact. The steel plates are and should not be rigidly fixed. I really can't understand how a bullet can impact hard steel, do a 180*, tumble back some 300 meters with enough velocity to penetrate steel siding and still remain intact unless it had a low impact velocity and tough construction including a steel core and impact on a fixed surface.

What I can see is, fragments from some soft or mild steel plate being blown back - deep pock marks or craters - the blasted off stuff has to go somewhere. The question is, how big are the fragments, do fragments contain bullet material and how far can they travel?

What I do see are plenty of indications of tiny bullet fragments that appear as dust blasting surrounding features like the paint on other targets and chains. I have found deformed spent bullets resting on the ground near the steel targets but these appear to have not hit the hard steel as the bullets appear to be mostly intact with un-deformed points or sides.

 

[ballison]

I really can't understand how a bullet can impact hard steel, do a 180*, tumble back some 300 meters with enough velocity to penetrate steel siding and still remain intact unless it had a low impact velocity and tough construction including a steel core and impact on a fixed surface.

I could not agree more! As a PRS shooter for the past 5 years, I have been in the vicinity of well over 100,000 rounds fired at steel plates, and have never had one "rebound" back to the firing line. And as someone with an engineering degree, the pure physics of it happening seem virtually impossible. We're talking about a lead/steel core bullet impacting a steel plate and returning (see coefficient of restitution) 180 deg, 300 yards, with enough retained energy to penetrate a roof/wall. I'm sure someone could run the actual numbers, but I'm just gonna say "nope"

 

[Rustytigwire]

Different but maybe relevant. Take a 2x6 and drill 1/4 inch holes as necessary. 2 inchs or so apart. Put nail gun blanks in the holes. Set out at 50 yards and shoot with air gun. Hard to hit but you know when it happens KERPOW!
Those hulls come straight back at you.
Signed mr Duh.