Resizing and crimping

[Hidesato]

Hello All,
I’m new to reloading, read a lot about it but functionally I’m start to press my own. As such, I couldn’t find a way to make sure my dies were properly set, mainly the seating die, with using a couple sacrificial bullets and casings.
I’m using a Lee single stage press
Reloading all 5.56 brass
Bullets are 75 grain ELD Match
COL (now) set to 2.25
issue I’m running into is after crimping, which it looks like I might be able to adjust tighter a bit, the bullet drops back into the casing. I haven’t loaded any powder as I am trying to make sure all my does are set.
When I chamber the round from the magazine, it feeds, extracts, and ejects fine, however the bullet gets pushed back in to the casing.

Again, super novice here so any wisdom would be appreciated.

 

[danny]

Do you have any images of the problem rounds? You may be seating the bullets too far into the case. Some of these projectiles are not really suitable for Magazine feeding in an AR, which I assume you could be loading for, though I do not know. I am not really familiar with many of the newer 75 grain and up projectiles, so I can't advise on that by name only

Danny

 

[JRanum]

The bullet should not drop into the case even without a crimp. If this is fired brass, have you resized it?

 

[Hidesato]

The bullet should not drop into the case even without a crimp. If this is fired brass, have you resized it?

I have, I used a factory size resizing die as well as collet neck die.

 

[Hidesato]

Do you have any images of the problem rounds? You may be seating the bullets too far into the case. Some of these projectiles are not really suitable for Magazine feeding in an AR, which I assume you could be loading for, though I do not know. I am not really familiar with many of the newer 75 grain and up projectiles, so I can't advise on that by name only

Danny

 

[SSL]

Hello All,
I’m new to reloading, read a lot about it but functionally I’m start to press my own. As such, I couldn’t find a way to make sure my dies were properly set, mainly the seating die, with using a couple sacrificial bullets and casings.
I’m using a Lee single stage press
Reloading all 5.56 brass
Bullets are 75 grain ELD Match
COL (now) set to 2.25
issue I’m running into is after crimping, which it looks like I might be able to adjust tighter a bit, the bullet drops back into the casing. I haven’t loaded any powder as I am trying to make sure all my does are set.
When I chamber the round from the magazine, it feeds, extracts, and ejects fine, however the bullet gets pushed back in to the casing.

Again, super novice here so any wisdom would be appreciated.

Yeah...looks like no sizing of the neck at all. No offense, but collet dies are really best used after you have some experience and know how to set them up correctly. Most find that decent full-length sizing die work much better. Your very first step should be to adjust your sizing die according to Lee instructions. Then run a lubed case into the die. Once you remove the now sized case from the die, a bullet should not slide into the case neck without a pretty decent application of force.
Follow the instructions that come with your die sets, but the basics are as follow for the average rifle (bottleneck) cartridge: Sizing dies should be set up to not quite touch the shell holder when the press is in full stroke. If your die also has the de-priming stem (as most rifle dies do) make sure that the stem is adjusted high enough to not hit the case web, which can bend the stem rendering it useless. Lube a case (including a light dab in the case mouth of maybe every third one to cut down on expander ball friction), making sure to lube only the case sides and not over-lube which can cause case wrinkles, and run it into the die. If the primer wasn’t punched out at this point, back the case out a little and adjust the de-priming stem a little deeper. Now run the case all the way in again. Repeat as needed until the primer is removed without the stem hitting the web. Lock the settings in place with the die rings for both the stem and the die body itself. Remove the case and place in a container for cleaning and continue sizing cases.

After removing the sizing die, install the seating die. This die will require a bit of trial and error to adjust properly. First, back the seating stem out a generous amount. Leaving the die about halfway started, run a clean, de-primed case fully into the die and slowly screw the die downwards. The tolerances between the die and the sized case should allow you to easily run the die down without interference. At some point you will feel the die bump against the case mouth. This is the “step” that would normally create the crimp on a loaded round if the die is screwed in further. Since most rifle cartridges perform quite well without the crimp, we will assume this is what we want at this point. Back the die out about a quarter to a half of a turn and lock it in place. Place a primed case with the appropriate powder charge in the shell holder and slowly run it into the die while starting a bullet into the case mouth. When you feel resistance, run it in a little further and then remove it and measure for bullet seating depth. Slowly increase the seating stem depth and run the case back in, repeating the above until the bullet is seated to your desired depth. Lock the seating stem and proceed with the rest of your cases. Once your cases have been loaded, perform a final inspection to make sure all is ready and then go shoot!

 

[Hidesato]

Yeah...looks like no sizing of the neck at all. No offense, but collet dies are really best used after you have some experience and know how to set them up correctly. Most find that decent full-length sizing die work much better. Your very first step should be to adjust your sizing die according to Lee instructions. Then run a lubed case into the die. Once you remove the now sized case from the die, a bullet should not slide into the case neck without a pretty decent application of force.
Follow the instructions that come with your die sets, but the basics are as follow for the average rifle (bottleneck) cartridge: Sizing dies should be set up to not quite touch the shell holder when the press is in full stroke. If your die also has the de-priming stem (as most rifle dies do) make sure that the stem is adjusted high enough to not hit the case web, which can bend the stem rendering it useless. Lube a case (including a light dab in the case mouth of maybe every third one to cut down on expander ball friction), making sure to lube only the case sides and not over-lube which can cause case wrinkles, and run it into the die. If the primer wasn’t punched out at this point, back the case out a little and adjust the de-priming stem a little deeper. Now run the case all the way in again. Repeat as needed until the primer is removed without the stem hitting the web. Lock the settings in place with the die rings for both the stem and the die body itself. Remove the case and place in a container for cleaning and continue sizing cases.

After removing the sizing die, install the seating die. This die will require a bit of trial and error to adjust properly. First, back the seating stem out a generous amount. Leaving the die about halfway started, run a clean, de-primed case fully into the die and slowly screw the die downwards. The tolerances between the die and the sized case should allow you to easily run the die down without interference. At some point you will feel the die bump against the case mouth. This is the “step” that would normally create the crimp on a loaded round if the die is screwed in further. Since most rifle cartridges perform quite well without the crimp, we will assume this is what we want at this point. Back the die out about a quarter to a half of a turn and lock it in place. Place a primed case with the appropriate powder charge in the shell holder and slowly run it into the die while starting a bullet into the case mouth. When you feel resistance, run it in a little further and then remove it and measure for bullet seating depth. Slowly increase the seating stem depth and run the case back in, repeating the above until the bullet is seated to your desired depth. Lock the seating stem and proceed with the rest of your cases. Once your cases have been loaded, perform a final inspection to make sure all is ready and then go shoot!

No offense taken, at all. The collet die through me off since the full length die was also included. I went through setting up all the dues included “by the numbers”. The full length I raise the ram till the die came in contact, lowered the ram a bit, then lowered (if mem serves me correct) 1/4 turn, raised the ram and locked the l die in place. I’ll run through it again, I do think you’re correct in that it’s either the sizing or maybe not crimping (?)
Appreciate your response.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Your collet die is the collet Neck Sizing die, or the collet Crimping die?
Does it have a CAP and look like this?

A cheap set of calipers $15 is good enough to find problems.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Using ONLY the FL Sizing die (not the seating die or collet die)
With the cheap calipers, measure neck diameter before any operations.
Your Measurement _____________
New case or fired case?
Does bullet fall in?
Using FL Sizing die, remove Mandrel/Spindel, lube case and size.
Measure neck outside diameter.
Your Measurement _____________
Does bullet fall in?
Now do the same thing but with the spindle installed.
You should feel the spindle being pulled out of the sized case.
Measure neck outside diameter.
Your Measurement _____________
Does bullet fall in?
Seat bullet with Seating die, adjusted for NO crimp.
DO NOT SEAT the bullet past the bearing surface. It will be LONG.
Measure loaded round neck outside diameter.
Your Measurement _____________
Here is a Heavy crimped 5.56/75 A-Max seated to 2.440" (long loaded, will NOT fit in Magazine).
This is a dummy round for checking chamber fit.

 

[Sandstorm]

Do you have any friends that reload.
You could use a Mentor to get started so that you don't get into trouble Sir.
Its easy to get things really wrong and not realize it. ( Quite dangerous )
Just a heads up....be careful and enjoy the process as you progress.

 

[Rocketvapor]

That's a good suggestion.
Here's what a 75 A-Max loaded to 2.260".
Bullet is really too long for AR mag length.
Hornady 75gr BTHP should fit, check Reloading Data Center



Crimping on the slopped surface of the ogive of the bullet will tend to drive it into the case.

 

[6Creed73]

As a test, set your seating die to seat the bullet with a longer COL. You might be pushing the bullet bearing surface too deep and past the neck causing it to drop into the case. I don't have a 75gr ELD-M bullet on hand to measure, but I know they are pretty long. It's possible those won't load to mag length.

Also, if you are going to crimp your 5.56 rounds, do yourself a favor and get the Lee Factory Crimp die and do it in a separate step. Just set your seating die up to not crimp and crimp then afterwards with the Lee. It's easier and doesn't require the brass to be trimmed to the same length.

 

[SSL]

Several references have been made concerning how deep to seat the bullet. Hornady lists the seating depth for both the 75-grain AMAX and ELD-M as 2.390". They suggest that either be used single-load in any AR due to the length not fitting into a magazine. That is a fair amount longer than the 'traditional' 2.50" length (as listed in your original post) and should be considered a minimum. It is quite possible that you are pushing the bullet deep enough to push the ogive into the neck and lose neck tension as several have suggested. The .2.440" shown in the posts by @Rocketvapor is even better if it will chamber in your rifle.

 

[Rocketvapor]

The 2.440" shown as a dummy is Touch in one of my AR 223 Wylde chambers.
I load about 0.030" less than that with the 75 A-Max.

 

[K22]

Do you have any friends that reload.
You could use a Mentor to get started so that you don't get into trouble Sir.
Its easy to get things really wrong and not realize it. ( Quite dangerous )
Just a heads up....be careful and enjoy the process as you progress.

This good advice. Trying to sort through a bunch of accurate and well-meaning posts might be difficult for a beginner. You may want to consider starting over from scratch.

First, I would get a Lyman Reloading Handbook, read it thoroughly before attempting to reload. Understand all the steps involved and the reasons behind each step.

Second, I would find a mentor to help you even if you have to do it over the phone. If that isn't possible, I would take one step at a time, checking as you go along starting with the most basis of dies, a FL die and standard seating die. You want to keep the process as simple as possible to start with. Safety has to be the overriding principle.

 

[akajun]

Are you trying to load these mag length ? Iirc tge 75 eldx is loaded long and singje loaded in ar’s

 

[Doom]

Unlike 30 years ago when a given design/weight bullet from one manufacturer would be close to the same as another we live in in an environment of same caliber bullets with different ogive shapes, designed for specific purposes, designed around different cartridges, with rifles with vastly different twist rates. Probably nowhere is this more pronounced than in the .224 caliber which is further complicated by the 2.26" mag length requirement for the AR platform. Regardless of cartridge, in today's environment I personally think it's more important than ever to have current reloading manuals that include the bullets that you are/intend to shoot.

Ditto on the Mentor!

 

[Webster]

Hello All,
I’m new to reloading, read a lot about it but functionally I’m start to press my own. As such, I couldn’t find a way to make sure my dies were properly set, mainly the seating die, with using a couple sacrificial bullets and casings.
I’m using a Lee single stage press
Reloading all 5.56 brass
Bullets are 75 grain ELD Match
COL (now) set to 2.25
issue I’m running into is after crimping, which it looks like I might be able to adjust tighter a bit, the bullet drops back into the casing. I haven’t loaded any powder as I am trying to make sure all my does are set.
When I chamber the round from the magazine, it feeds, extracts, and ejects fine, however the bullet gets pushed back in to the casing.

Again, super novice here so any wisdom would be appreciated.

Nobody crimps unless it's required for a semi-auto??? Sounds like your seating the bullets to long, how else would they get pushed in. My Sierra manual give 2.260" COAL for all bullet wts. Sounds like 2.250" should be OK. I would try one at 2.240" to easily see if it solves the problem. What's the COL with the bullet pushed in? Standard FL dies should give good neck tension. A few measurements with a cheap digital caliper would give you some good info, case neck diameter before sizing, after sizing, with bullet in the neck. Match bullets don't have a crimping grove. You are not supposed to crimp them. Are you sure it's a crimping die.

Just looked at some of the comments and pics. Need to reread them. A lot of info.
The freebore on your rifle was probably made for 52-55 Gr bullets, not a long 75 gr bullet. I adjust my dies with a bump guage the instructions can be a long way from the ideal adjustment. Why did you choose 75 gr bullets?

 

[Webster]

That's a good suggestion.
Here's what a 75 A-Max loaded to 2.260".
Bullet is really too long for AR mag length.
Hornady 75gr BTHP should fit, check Reloading Data Center
View attachment 1482621
View attachment 1482623

Crimping on the slopped surface of the ogive of the bullet will tend to drive it into the case.

Looks like the bearing surface is below the neck. Factory freebore for a 55 gr bullet?

 

[6Creed73]

Nobody crimps unless it's required for a semi-auto??? Sounds like your seating the bullets to long, how else would they get pushed in. My Sierra manual give 2.260" COAL for all bullet wts. Sounds like 2.250" should be OK. I would try one at 2.240" to easily see if it solves the problem. What's the COL with the bullet pushed in? Standard FL dies should give good neck tension. A few measurements with a cheap digital caliper would give you some good info, case neck diameter before sizing, after sizing, with bullet in the neck. Match bullets don't have a crimping grove. You are not supposed to crimp them. Are you sure it's a crimping die.

Just looked at some of the comments and pics. Need to reread them. A lot of info.
The freebore on your rifle was probably made for 52-55 Gr bullets, not a long 75 gr bullet. I adjust my dies with a bump guage the instructions can be a long way from the ideal adjustment. Why did you choose 75 gr bullets?

There's no way he's seating too long, it's too deep. The suggested COL for that bullet is 2.390.