Resetting Bolt Handle For Better Extraction
- Thread starter tonyb
- Start date
hoz53
Gold $$ Contributor
If you want someone to do the job--Dans 40x--Alex Wheeler-- Greg Tannel-- to name a few
Tony B
To help the search function on this sight I am going to Hijack your thread to ask another question if you don't mind.?
I have been working on a R700 used for NRA High Power XTC matches. There is a Sitting Rapid Fire stage that requires shooting ten shot in the sitting position. Having a Bolt that is easy to lift and cock is very desirable in this particular instance.
Last month I successfully took a Stock R700 and messaged the Cocking Ramp to reduce the effort to lift the bolt and Replaced the bolt handle to its proper timing location. HOWEVER.... After I installed the Trigger I have noticed that the Trigger transfer Bar is compressing the Firing Pin spring even farther which is increasing the effort it is taking to close the bolt right at the moment the locking lugs engage the Abutment Ramp in the action.
So its obvious this is trigger timing. I have another Cocking Piece here so I would like to try my hand at doing this.. I like learning new things and this is a good time to do that.
Work the Cocking Piece where it contacts the top Trigger lever?
Russel
To help the search function on this sight I am going to Hijack your thread to ask another question if you don't mind.?
I have been working on a R700 used for NRA High Power XTC matches. There is a Sitting Rapid Fire stage that requires shooting ten shot in the sitting position. Having a Bolt that is easy to lift and cock is very desirable in this particular instance.
Last month I successfully took a Stock R700 and messaged the Cocking Ramp to reduce the effort to lift the bolt and Replaced the bolt handle to its proper timing location. HOWEVER.... After I installed the Trigger I have noticed that the Trigger transfer Bar is compressing the Firing Pin spring even farther which is increasing the effort it is taking to close the bolt right at the moment the locking lugs engage the Abutment Ramp in the action.
So its obvious this is trigger timing. I have another Cocking Piece here so I would like to try my hand at doing this.. I like learning new things and this is a good time to do that.
Work the Cocking Piece where it contacts the top Trigger lever?
Russel
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I am guessing the"messaging the cocking ramp" experiment has shortened the cocking stroke on opening. To maintain the original firing pin stroke, you have to make up the loss on closing . There is no way around it if you want to maintain the original firing pin stroke length ( also the original primer impact energy). Using a softer firing pin spring will ease the bolt operation, but will sacrifice primer impact. If you "work the cocking piece" the reduced firing pin stroke will be locked in which is the same as using a softer spring. Basically, it all boils down to there being no such thing as a free lunch. Think about it. If it was a simple design change to reduce the bolt operation effort, why wouldn't Remington have designed it that way in the beginning?
RWO
For quality and precision, Dan Armstrong can't be beat
Just a Note I NEVER touched the Detent where the Cocking piece Rests in the Bolt Body. Knowing that would mess things up.
I am guessing the Trigger lever is quite long on this trigger and it is compressing the firing pin spring an Additional .060 beyond what the Bolt body it self is holding it at after I lift the bolt. I am going to guess that .060 is a lot.....
I am guessing the Trigger lever is quite long on this trigger and it is compressing the firing pin spring an Additional .060 beyond what the Bolt body it self is holding it at after I lift the bolt. I am going to guess that .060 is a lot.....
.252 plus the .060 extra is .312 total travel in the rifle.
I agree. it was a Bear to close.
I took off .050 and left it at .011 just in case. I will double check that firing pin fall as its in the action. I see where you are going with this now that you have asked. A hunch is that I think I am still plenty good or right at or above the .240 travel with a full 24Lb spring and Fullsize firing pin. Trigger is a Xtreme two stage.
Russel
My thought is that I am going to learn something no matter what happens.. Cocking Pieces are cheap.
I took off .050 and left it at .011 just in case. I will double check that firing pin fall as its in the action. I see where you are going with this now that you have asked. A hunch is that I think I am still plenty good or right at or above the .240 travel with a full 24Lb spring and Fullsize firing pin. Trigger is a Xtreme two stage.
Russel
My thought is that I am going to learn something no matter what happens.. Cocking Pieces are cheap.
Just what exactly does the cocking ramp have to do with pin fall? The fellow said he never touched the detent notch. The cocking ramp does one thing, it pulls the firing pin via cocking piece back so when you close the bolt the cocking piece rests in the notch.
Sometimes there is a lot of "flat" between the notch and the top of the cocking ramp. This could be reduced to make the ramp more gradual, making the cock easier, but the cocking piece is still coming to rest in the notch.
Sometimes there is a lot of "flat" between the notch and the top of the cocking ramp. This could be reduced to make the ramp more gradual, making the cock easier, but the cocking piece is still coming to rest in the notch.
Russ,
When you begin to close (rotate) the bolt the firing pin has to move to the rear to get out of the notch. How much depends on how deep the notch is. If the trigger picks up the cocking piece before the bolt starts to close then you will have to move the bolt an additional amount under spring tension (which sounds like the problem you had). If the trigger hasn't picked up the cocking piece then the cocking piece will rub against the slot in the bottom of the receiver to move it out of the notch as you rotate the bolt to close it. It will then fall forward a little bit to catch the trigger. I think ideally that the trigger needs to catch the cocking piece and lift it a couple of thousands before you begin to rotate the handle closed. You'll still have a small amount of closing pressure but the movement of the cocking piece will be very little.
When you begin to close (rotate) the bolt the firing pin has to move to the rear to get out of the notch. How much depends on how deep the notch is. If the trigger picks up the cocking piece before the bolt starts to close then you will have to move the bolt an additional amount under spring tension (which sounds like the problem you had). If the trigger hasn't picked up the cocking piece then the cocking piece will rub against the slot in the bottom of the receiver to move it out of the notch as you rotate the bolt to close it. It will then fall forward a little bit to catch the trigger. I think ideally that the trigger needs to catch the cocking piece and lift it a couple of thousands before you begin to rotate the handle closed. You'll still have a small amount of closing pressure but the movement of the cocking piece will be very little.
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