Removing the expander ball in Forster dies...

[ordnancemarine]

Just wanted to get a few quick opinions from some of you... what does removing the expander ball in my dies actually do and should I do it. Just trying to figure out the logic of removing something that forster put on. Thanks for the input in advance.

 

[K22]

The expander ball is intended to expand the neck to allow the bullet to be seated after the neck was resized. This is adquate for most reloading applications for hunting and even precision varmint handloads therefore for the average reloader, the expander ball should not be removed.

Many benchrest and competition shooters desire a more precise sizing of the neck area and use a Competition Bushing Neck Die such as a Redding. This allows them to tailor the neck tension by selecting the appropriate bushing thus enhancing accuracy. It's often advisable to turn necks if you pursue this type of sizing.

 

[Shynloco]

I'm sure that you realize, that when you remove the expander ball in any make of die, you now are left with having to resize the neck of the casing by another means. I use strictly Redding Dies in all my calibers to resize my brass after every firing and I have removed the expander ball in each of the dies. There is a theory that an old time reloader taugh me about a year ago that expander balls in general, have tendancy to "rough up" the inside of the neck of the casing and hence the belief is you are not getting the same (or best possible) smooth seating of a bullet and exit of the bullet when fired. SO to resize my neck, I used a Sinclair Mandrel die with the appropriate resizing Mandrel foir the neck. BTW, there are two sizes of Mandrels, one for neck sizing and one for neck turning that are evr so slightly different so don't be using a neck turning mandrel as the resizing mandrel. Personally, I can feel what a difference there is when I use my WIlson Bullet Seating dies to seat the bullets with necks having been resized with a Expander Ball and another with the resized with a Mandrel Neck Die. The other place I've seen a difference is in the accuracy of the rounds where I've used the Mandrel Die. Like your saying goes, "Accuracy is everything." Just my thoughts.

 

[jlow]

If you remove the expander ball in your die, the neck dimensions of your brass will be whatever the sizing die makes it. Normally the sizing die makes your neck smaller than you want and it is the job of the expander ball to expand it to the proper dimensions. So removing the ball will make the neck of your brass too tight. However, there are reasons to do this, but it is not normal SOP. Why are you considering doing it?

 

[Shynloco]

If you remove the expander ball in your die, the neck dimensions of your brass will be whatever the sizing die makes it. Normally the sizing die makes your neck smaller than you want and it is the job of the expander ball to expand it to the proper dimensions. So removing the ball will make the neck of your brass too tight. However, there are reasons to do this, but it is not normal SOP. Why are you considering doing it?

The part about "making the neck too tight" is exactly why I use the Mandrel Die to get the correct sizing with a smoother inside than with the expander ball. BTW, do not remove the expander ball if you are loading for hunting purposes. They are plenty god for that purpose. My loads are for ultimate accuracy and not hunting.

 

[artbosco]

what does removing the expander ball in my dies actually do and should I do it. Just trying to figure out the logic of removing something that Forster put on.

Try this approach first. Call Forster and then ask them for their Logic or Rationale as to why the expander ball was installed in the die in the first place. What was their reason for including it?

 

[fdshuster]

ordnancemarine: The die manufacturers include a neck expander with the FL sizing dies because they have no idea of what type of brass you are using. If you are using brass that has neck walls that are thinner than normal, then the neck sizing section would not be able to squeeze the necks down far enough to hold the bullet. It would fall into the case when seating. For that reason, the case neck is deliberately oversized to a minimum diameter,, but then must be opened up to approx. .002" smaller than bullet diameter. That way, all the seated bullets will have the same bullet pull.

When we use neck bushing dies we are only reducing the neck dia. enough to hold the bullet, anywhere from .001" to around .004" depending on the type of firearm & its' use. The necks are not being oversized, so no need to expand them, since they are already at the proper inside dia.

Some believe the expanders can pull the case necks out of alignement with the case body, but that's a whole 'nother subject.

 

[Longtrain]

I tossed the ball and had Forster hone the neck to .331. I FL resize bumping the shoulder back about .002, then run the case though a Sinclair neck turning mandrel. This gives me a few thou of neck tension, most importantly consistent neck tension. Run out is mostly .001 or less which is also important. My necks are turned and fire formed before they are used for a match, prior to using this process.

This has worked well for me, using the stuff that I had on hand. I tried Redding FL dies, bushing dies and even Lee Collet Dies, but this combination works and gives me consistent loads. The Lee Collet did work fairly well too, but I had some difficulty maintaining batch to batch consistency in neck tension.

Tony

 

[ordnancemarine]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the opinions! looks like a have a little bit of experimenting to do...Fun, fun fun!

 

[robbor]

i used the forster dies without expanders for a while because iys said the expander causes runout. without the expander my cases were sized .007-.008 smaller than a loaded round as i recall. Accuracy was good. since i have sent in all my forsters and had them honed.

 

[coues52]

1+ Longtrain..I now have 6 Forster fl dies honed for about .002 tension and I like that it resized the whole neck in one operation ( no donuts from only sizing 1/2-2/3 of the neck) and that I don,t have to size the neck down in steps if I have have to size more than .005 to bring it in.. also use the 0 ring under the locking nut..It helped my necks stay straight. PS: your mileage may very..also I,m new to this & it made sense when I read about it,lol..~coues52