Remingtons going off by touching the bolt

[jonbearman]

Mr hedditch,I too had a close call.I fired a .22 into a homemade trap indoors and it richoched straight back and literally came within a 1/4 inch of hitting me on the crown of my skull .It actually parted my hair. So I know insane things happen to lots of people. I in no way feel mthey did the wrong thing in exposing the problem.I remember last year when the conglomerate took over remington and bushmaster and they stated they wanted to bring back the golden splendor of the hey day in building safe reliable firearms.I guess it is a different day,same old^%#! It is rediculous with there latest recall on all there .17hrm semiauto rifle's.It is stated that it could cause injury or death.There fix is a small amount of money for your ammo and the gun.It is about 1/2 of what it is worth.Figure's doesnt it.

 

[wapiti25]

I have had one trigger that the trigger sear had metal fatigue and failed at the range just before going on a hunt, the rifle was pointed down range so it was a good time to fail. I have also found on the pre "X" trigger that the return spring does not have enough pre-load when adjusted to the 2 lb or below and will not hold or be consistent. A spring with a lower rate will help this condition.

 

[Scott Harris]

I guess everyone has different standards, but the very fact that this is being discussed means the trigger is not safe enough for me. Sure, follow the rules of gun safety, but that does not absolve the manufacturer from responsibility. Maybe the problem is the design has not been improved since the 1940s. Perhaps this was a very reliable trigger by 1940s standards. Today, I measure trigger safety by Glock standards. Anyone having these types of discussions about a Glock? I don't have any concerns about the trigger on my Glock or my S&W revolver, why should it be different with a R700? Time to move into the 21st century and raise the standards of performance I say.

There are uncountable of examples where manufacturers insisted that their product was perfectly safe until one too many "user mistakes" happened. I recall S&W insisted that their revolver was perfectly safe(circa 1930's I believe) until some poor sailor dropped his revolver on the deck and got shot in the head. Funny thing, S&W took their perfectly safe revolver and made it a little bit safer...mostly because the military threatened revoke their contracts if they didn' t fix it.

PS. I"m not a liberal. I just don't believe in free rides to companies just because they happen to make firearms. We don't put up with this stuff with our cars, why would it be any different with deadly firearms?

 

[RonAKA]

Remington had a recall on all their early mod 700 triggers because yes, the rifle could fire when releasing the safety, touching the bolt, etc. on completely stock triggers.

I have a 1960's 700, and do not recall them saying on the CNBC show there was a general recall for the early 700's, unless it was well before the 60's. I do recall there was some mention of a recall, but dismissed it because it didn't include the time when mine was made. Do you know what years, and what the fix they applied?

My take away from the show was that there is a potential problem with the trigger, that is related to the so called connector plate. It is the black strip next to the trigger in the figure below.

This strip is not physically connected to the trigger, and only held in place by the trigger weight spring. The problem occurs when the connector plate does not follow the trigger movement, due to gunk build up and/or too light a trigger weight spring adjustment.

While I am not too worried as I have not had the problem occur and I have never modified the trigger settings from the factory, I did clean it with automotive throttle body cleaner, and did get some gunk out of it. The only lube I used was the residual in the cleaner. I've done that with success on other guns, where excessive lube causes a problem.

I checked the pull and found it was set at 3 1/4 lbs. Does anyone know what Remington set them at over the years? I've heard some are set much heavier. Was that the "fix" they applied in the recall? Just set them heavier.

 

[LHSmith]

Wasn't the recall in '87 to modify the safety so that the bolt could be operated with the safety on ? This recall was for 700's, 788's, xp's.
I find it incredulous that some claim Remington did not offer to inspect their faulty trigger claims. In today's world, a phone call gets you nowhere . If I bought a NEW firearm and the gun Manufacturer refused to inspect a safety related warranty claim, I would go to the retailer and demand a replacement, it's in their best interest to avoid them being named in a counter-suit. If I bought it used or as NIB- with an unsealed box- I would take it to a smith and pay to fix it, and consider it a lesson learned. How many refused to send the rifle in when told they would be charged for shipping costs if nothing was found?
Get ready for gov't mandated 10 #, non-serviceable triggers, after this fiasco.

 

[shortgrass]

Wasn't the recall in '87 to modify the safety so that the bolt could be operated with the safety on ? This recall was for 700's, 788's, xp's.
I find it incredulous that some claim Remington did not offer to inspect their faulty trigger claims. In today's world, a phone call gets you nowhere . If I bought a NEW firearm and the gun Manufacturer refused to inspect a safety related warranty claim, I would go to the retailer and demand a replacement, it's in their best interest to avoid them being named in a counter-suit. If I bought it used or as NIB- with an unsealed box- I would take it to a smith and pay to fix it, and consider it a lesson learned. How many refused to send the rifle in when told they would be charged for shipping costs if nothing was found?
Get ready for gov't mandated 10 #, non-serviceable triggers, after this fiasco.

Say good by to the barrel nut on the Savages, too, as it calls out for the barrel to be changed. Over the years I've seen many firearms that should have been sent back to the manufactuer but haven't been. Seems there's some kinda' 'voodoo' about sending a gun back. They usually end up in a pawn shop or on a table at the gunshow.

 

[sonofagun231]

I didn't see this CNBC report (was it recent?). Sounds like the same issue that was covered on (I believe) 6o Minutes years ago which I have a VHS tape of.

 

[gilream]

No one knows what really happened. The bottom line for me? I am deeply sorry for her loss but the woman was negligent. She did not have the gun pointed in a safe direction, the gun could have been neglected and gunk collected in the trigger mechanism rendering it unsafe, the gun could have been fooled with by an amateur gunsmith.

NBC television=communists=Democrats=Trial Lawyers=Money$$$

Simple

 

[jonbearman]

Shortgrass,what do you mean by goodbye to savage barrel nuts? Are you inferring that nobody should change a barrel on a savage reciever due to inability? If someone make's his or her own self inflicted mistake,it cant be can't be controlled.If the nut goes away,Mr home tinkerer will find a way to screw it up out of cheapness and stupidity.At that point ,it is all on them. I build race motors and then the customer takes it out and changes ignition timing or jetting in the carb,and detonate's a piston.Should the government or manufacturer get involved.You will never stop home fixes no matter how catostrophic the outcome.

 

[jonbearman]

Scothar,I really dont think anyone thinks big industry should get a free ride.ET:"faulty products" The government is under tremendous pressure from the people right now to debut obama care.It doesnt exist because they run the government like big business.You know fat paychecks and more work for less.Industry operates the same way and you are asking the same type of people to make example of what they do everyday.The real problem is the freedom group who took them over.Then by law they dont have to deal with it like the original plant owners should of in the first place for 5.5 cents per trigger. If you have an old outdated rifle with this problem then I think freedom group should offer there updated trigger fix at a nominal fee.They should set up any stocking dealer capable of this simple repair to do it and give them vouchers towards future remington purchases.But this is to easy because it would cost them a fraction of the 28.8 millon dollars it would cost today.The real problem results from a sue happy society(not everyone is like this) and lawyers advertising get rich quick lawsuits on the television 4 times every hour.Bad things happen and they are horrible.If it happened to me I would pay for a trigger myself and go to an aftermarket.Truly there is no mechanical device that cant fail period.Why did rem wait so long,they were in financial ruins or just to greedy to do it.I still own about a dozen or so of there rifles and love them.The only hunting AD I ever had was with a 1932 mossberg bolt action .22. I hope they find a solution before this thing gets out of hand because this is just what the libs want to happen so they can find a reason to put the firearms industry under for good.

 

[shortgrass]

Well Jon, your last post pretty much summed it up. There are adjustment screws on those Remington triggers and, evidently, they just scream to be moved because I see alot of them that have been. CNBC didn't come clean on wheather some of those triggers had been tampered with or not. Seems to me they would use that same twisted logic about the barrel nut. And yes, there are people who shouldn't be changing barrels on Savages, installing after market triggers on any make or model, or reloading for that matter. Very few, in todays society, are willing step up and take responsibility. Not those in public office, not those in corporate managment, not the guy on the assembly line, not the person who trys to 'adjust' a trigger (or carb , for that matter). Being perfect has 'trumped' personal responsibility. Looks like Savage has already taken the first step by re-designing that barrel nut.

 

[bozo699]

Shortgrass,
Post count and I.Q. are two different things!.
Now thats funny right there, but true.Somtimes I like reading the signatures better than the posts. LMAO
Wayne.

 

[jonbearman]

I have been reading blogs about how people dont want to buy older remingtons because of the so called trigger malfunctions.It makes me sick to see the ultra libs impacting the industry with a bs story to try to destroy remington and others as well. It is just ridiculous.Toyota sales are strong even though they have accelerator pedal problems.In fact the lib media is playing it down.Just my thoughts.

 

[bozo699]

jon,
My old boss just told me today he and his wife were hunting this past weekend, she has a .270 win in a older model 700 rem. When they made it back to there vehicle from there hunt they both unloaded there rifles. (HER'S WENT OFF) fortunately they both practice good gun safety practices and her muzzle was pointed down in a safe direction.It happened as soon as she released her safety. She got a broken thumb nail and was shook up but that's better than some of the stories I have heard. The rifle is now getting a new trigger installed. The rifle was used when purchased so it is unknown if the trigger has been adjusted.
Wayne.
P.S
Jack Belk was down here where I live a couple of years ago bird hunting, I met him and had quite a lengthy conversation with him and one talk was on this trigger, he told me they have been having trouble with it since the forties, I unfortunately did not get to see all the cnbc special.

 

[22XC Guy]

Over ten years ago, I had my 84 Remington 700, .270. My left hand action did fire a shot off unexpectedly while closing the bolt one early morning of deer season. Neil Jones cleaned and readjusted the trigger pull to three pounds.

But, I had taken the bolt apart a few years later of Neil's work for routine cleaning. The only thing that I can pin point, not cycling the bolt in the action prior to reassembling the bolt?

This was the only time this happened, plus I had never disassemble bolt since that incident. It still has us puzzled to this day and gun safety at all times.

Steve

 

[Taildrag15X]

shortgrass quote,,
"Looks like Savage has already taken the first step by re-designing that barrel nut"

But all you need is a spaner wrench made for that type nut, reportedly available from a supplier in Ohio.

 

[KMart]

I recently had a Mod 7 that belonged to a friend that the trigger wouldn't pull but the firing pin would go forward when moving the bolt. When I checked it out, the trigger had NO movement in it at all, forward or back.
I took lighter fluid and gave everything a good flushing and kept working the trigger and finally got things moving correctly. I looked at the follower spring in the magazine and there was brown sticky crud on it and would wipe off easily with denatured alcohol. My best guess is that someone had given the rifle a good flushing with WD 40 or something similar and stood it up in the corner or safe and left it. In time this stuff gets sticky and makes things stop working. These solvents/lubricants have been sold as the cure all for rust and lubricantion and a lot of people think all you have to do is spray everything down using the attitude "If a little does a little good, then a lot does a lot of good". They are setting themselves up for trouble down the road.

 

[jonbearman]

The cnbc special made it look like they are all faulty.I realize that it happens with all rifles including my 1932 mossberg .22 that went off when the bolt was closed.It hasnt happened again but it could.I think any older style triggers had accuracy in mind and the designers never had a clue that the owner would try to adjust it to save money.A good smith can do it right but if you have no knowledge let the pro's do it. And wd40 is really the wrong lube for guns,I agree with that.It is just like starrett m1 spray,I had that stick a firing pin in a marlin camp 9.Never used these products again. Also nobody should be drowning there triggers with oil. It is just a matter of knowledge and gun safety .Without safety an accident will eventually occur,and no one will ever admit that they made the mistake.It is always the guns fault or someone else's fault.You have to take responsiblity for your own actions.I have made mistakes and admit that 1 accidentul discharge I had was my fault completely.It was a muzzle loader that I forgot to pull the bullet.I snapped a cap and boom! Now I fire the round at the end of every day rather than reliying on my memory to pull it later.I screwed up and it was my fault,not the guns.

 

[bozo699]

jon,
The gun I mentioned I have no idea if the gun had been messed with? I know my friend or his wife didn't messed with it, and I know he wouldn't lie about it, its just not him. The gun probably had been tinkered with @ some point in its life since 1982. jon, have you ever tried compressed air on your black powder rifles to remove the unfired charge? I used to fire mine every evening after a hunt, not anymore just blow it out into a bucket of sawdust, sacrifice the powder and reuse the projectile It is 1* out here this morning and still dropping, Brrrrr.
I have to make sure my black powder rifle is on today,start hunting tomorrow morning,its so cold out I might forget the whole hunting idea.
Wayne.

 

[jonbearman]

Wayne I wasnt making reference necessarily to your friends incident.I guess I got off course.What I really am upset about is john q public not wanting to buy an older remington due to CNBC(communist news broadcasting corp).That is no reason to hate a remington.Put a different trigger and safety in it,i'd say.They are trying to crush the firearms industry.