Remington's excessive freebore

[Ratter]

Thought some of you might find this of interest. I own three Remingtons in 204 Ruger, a 700 VSSF II with a Basics trigger, a stainless sps/ spss varmint which I've glass bedded in a thumbhole laminated stock, and an XR 100. I have not shot the XR yet, but I spose I should although I bought it on closeout at Sportsman's last week with the intention of having it re barreled into a 20 vartarg. The other two are shooting under an inch at 100 but nothing to brag about, in fact I hide the targets from my buddies!

Here's the deal, when I use Hornady's OAL gauge each of them has so much free bore that the bullet is just about out of the case neck by the time it hits the lands. My 223 and 22-250 Remington 700's all have fairly short leads, but they are earlier manufactured rifles. So I called Remington last week and got one of their tech. guys on the line. I asked him what was up with amount of free-bore? He went into what sounded to me as a well rehearsed answer, claiming that million$ had been spent researching the amount of free-bore and how it affected accuracy. The findings, he said, concluded that it made no difference as far as accuracy was concerned and that Remington had increased the amount of free-bore in all their rifles. I then asked 'OK, you're saying Joyce Hornady and most of what I've read and put into practice over the years is all out the window hugh, so why the increase? that is if it has no affect either positive or negative as far as accuracy' He said it was done to allow the shooter to use the wide range of bullet weights being commercially produced. I then said why would anyone try to go heavier than a 40 grainer in a 1/12 twist 204? For that he had no answer! No problem, I'd already found my answer. Which is, IN MY OPINION, Remington has gone to the excessive free-bore as a response to potential liabilities of shooter's using loads that should not be used in their particular rifle, but are however available to be purchased for it, more specifically too long/ heavy of bullet and dangerous pressure levels. It's just like those nasty factory trigger pulls we had to deal with.

So this has soured me on Remingtons. Why spend a grand on VSSF just to have it re-barreled or reworked? I'm sending the VSSF to Daryl Hollands to have the barrel cut back a thread or two and re-chambered to minimum. This along with a re-crown, trueing of the action, etc. should whip that dog into shape! I feel it does shoot well enough already that it warrants the expense and besides I do like it's looks, otherwise I'd re-barrel it. From now on though I think I'll go with Cooper's, or maybe give a Tikka a try. Remingtons, I'll buy beaters and rob the actions for a custom build.

Again, thought maybe some of you might find this of interest, Ratter

 

[fdshuster]

Ratter: Most likely 'lawyer mandated', as you said. My approach to the many problems with some new, factory rifles is simply to not buy one. Instead I will shop around for a good older, From the 60 & 70s),Rem 700 from a private owner, getting it for the receiver only. I've bought them for around $300. They are then blueprinted, squared up, a little trigger work, and a Hart, Shilen, etc. barrel installed. I then have a rifle built to my specs, and the cost is not much more than one of the newer 'top-of-the-line' factory rifles. Some factories place accuracy results at the very bottom of their list of 'important things'. Had a friend who bought a new 308 from one of the 'big names', w/ a Leupold scope, benchrest, etc. it produced 6' clusters at 100 yds. he contacted the factory and was told it meets their 'accuracy standards'.

 

[tenring]

The new parent of Remington prefers to sell tactical rifles, not sporting arms. Quality has deteriorated considerably and I would not buy one. And they don't want to discuss reloading for their products; liability considerations compel them to insist on use of factory ammo. Follow Frank's advice.

 

[1000yardstare]

I have two Rem 700 SPS Varmints, .204 and .308. Excessive freebore in both. Always thought it was some sort of lawyer situation. Determined OAL with my Sinclair OAL gauge. Calculated seating depths for 32 and 40 bullets in the .204 has them not even in the case for 20 thou off the lands. I just sort of seat them so the bases of the bullets are even with the bottom of the neck. Gives almost a full caliber jump to hit the rifling. Only the 32 Sierra BK will shoot consistently under an inch at 100 but with a flyer now and then. No other 32s and no 40s will shoot under and inch. By contrast my .204 Ruger stainless Hawkeye will shoot all bullet weights and makes sub-moa. I would call the Ruger seating depth 'normal'.

I use the .308 as an F Class backup gun. Seating 155 Sierra Palmas 20 thou off the lands has them just barely in the case neck. And this in a 'Varmint' rifle supposedly designed for light weight bullets. International F Class Restricted allows any bullet weight in .308 so the 168s might be a better choice. The AMax and MKing seat with the bullet bases just above the donut. The twelve twist is also better suited to 168s.

 

[Ratter]

I was certain others had been dealing with Remington's 'long jump' rifles. Like I said I won't buy anymore new ones unless it's viewed as buying a stock and action, and like discussed earlier, might as well buy a used donor rifle to build off of. I have a 22-250 in the Varmint Special,late 70's production) and it will shoot 1/4's no problem. My early 700 VS .223 with 24' barrel also shoots great as does my VSSF,first model) .223. But the new stuff, Ahhh forget it, some of it looks good but looks alone don't get it done. Ratter

 

[billmo]

That's what has turned alot of guys away from Remington along with their 10 lb trigger. These days if you want something that will shoot worth a dime, go custom and don't look back. You may spend more up front but in the end you will feel better when you work up your loads with minimum expense MOST of the time. Matt Salm from Wisconsin and a member here on 6BR is hard to beat on a custom rifle and his attitude is far more pleasant than some. Just my opinion. Bill