Remember when Winchester made decent brass ?

[Sundown]

I've told this story before...Bought a used S&W 45 Auto...stopped in to local gun store and bought a box of Winchester 45 acp ammo... went to local range and 20 yards the POI was all over, poor group, really bad. I called the guy I bought the 45 from and said the barrel is shot out. He assured me it wasn't and asked what ammo I was shooting. I told him it was Winchester. He said try something else so I bought something else ,can't remember what brand it was, but went to the range and the gun shot excellent. I was curious so preceded to disassemble a round from each brand, measuring everything. Long story short the Winchester round had a .44" dia. bullet and the other brand had a .451" dia. bullet. That was the last time I bought anything with the Winchester Name on it.

 

[rogina]

Consider yourself lucky!

Six or seven years ago I bought 200 rounds of Win 204 R brass. 34 of the necks slpit on the first firing. Later I bought 200 rounds of Win 220 Swift brass. The necks were to thick to go into a factoy chamber. No more Win brass.

 

[10XSHOOTER]

And to think that Winchester will be running Lake City Ammo plant for the Military for the next 7 years at least. Hate to think what our Military will be shooting.

 

[46and2]

In 2010 bought several hundred 7mm RM case, weight distribution was +95% within 3gr.
Two years ago bought 300 7mm-08 to neck down to 260rem, neck thickness variation was <.002".
However, over the last decade I've had about 20% rejection rate for neck thickness variation ( >.0035) on both 270wsm and 300wsm. They must be a booger to form. (But Norma doesn't seem to have a problem. ) but have never worn out a single piece of Winchester WSM brass!

 

[Texas10]

Remember when great companies like Winchester, Remington, Savage were owned by great minded individuals, instead of corporate hedge fund managers? Remember when pride in craftsmanship was a signature characteristic of individuals who worked in those companies of yesteryear?

Remember when a rifle assembled by an experienced gunsmith at Winchester where all the parts used were coincidentally perfectly made and the gun was labeled "one of a thousand" because it shot so consistently? And the price of those special guns was a years wages or more?

If today the price of a well made gun was a years wages, would your gun safe be so full of firearms?

If you prefer a lower, more affordable price, buy a good CNC made rifle assembled by minimum wage earners. (not knocking them, but they're not gunsmiths).

If you prefer a high quality shooter like what Alex Wheeler builds, or so many other fine craftsmen, be prepared to shell out a good portion of a years wages.

Even today, the old saying continues to apply: If you want good, clean, high quality oats, you must expect to pay a fair price for them. But if you're satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, those are a bit cheaper.

 

[jackson1]

Back in the mid 70's, as a young guy I started down the hand loading path. Back in the day I would swage the primer pockets on military (30-06) brass. Slowly acquired brass from Remington, Winchester, and Federal. In my own little world believed I was pretty good. For many years, my wife, family and home were my main priorities, that left precious little time for hunting and target shooting. Upon my semi forced retirement 10 years ago, I started seriously hunting, fishing, and target shooting. Hand loading always gave me great pleasure and the inter web really open my eyes to the possibilities. This was also the time of great shortages. Started from step 1 load development with all my rifles, pistols, and shotguns. Have used plenty of both Remington and Winchester brass, but my personal least favorite brass was Federal, and today there is none in my ammo stock pile. As I became a more a experienced shooter my taste in brass moved on to Lapua. I also watched the quality of Winchester and Remington brass go down hill. Thankfully there are alternatives, and for now, the shortages are over. The older I get, I am discovering the less I know, so if it works for you, more power to you.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Wanted to test a new 223 rifle the other day and did not want to wait for Lapua brass to be shipped. Picked up a Winchester 100 pack at Sportsman and proceeded to clean them up. Needed chamfering inside and out bad. Some of the necks were dinged to the point that I had to straighten them before I could chamfer. They are shooting OK but Lapua brass in on order. Don't know why I bother when Lapua makes brass in the caliber I'm interested in.

 

[SSL]

I just opened a way back machine in the form of some 7-08 brass that goes back to I’d guess 2002. It was a pleasure to work with. No dents , primer holes and pockets centered and round , clean without tarnish anywhere. Necks were good enough that I didn’t feel the need to turn them for a hunting rifle. Then I picked up some new Winchester 308 brass and the difference is night and day. I was so disgusted I put the 308 away and called it quits for the day. Just a rant about how far Winchester has fallen.

Yeah, but I also remember that Hersheys used to actually taste like chocolate, Coke (the drinking kind) tasted great, Burger King didn't sell "grass burgers", theater popcorn and potato chips used to taste good but not now, gas cans that anyone could open, pharmaceuticals, scopes, clothing and etc. not made in China. Now - Chicken hot dogs? Turkey pepperoni? Kale? Meat not good for you? Marijuana is? Eggs are a moving target as to whether we should eat them. We used to brag about how close we got for a shot...now it's how far away. 4X used to be the standard for big game hunting, now it seems to be the higher the better. .30/06 used to be the gold standard, now it's considered to be "old school".

Times, they are a' changin'!

 

[nicholst55]

And Winchester was just awarded the contract to run the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. I certainly hope that the Army holds their feet to the fire and enforces quality standards...

 

[tomswede]

Remember when great companies like Winchester, Remington, Savage were owned by great minded individuals, instead of corporate hedge fund managers? Remember when pride in craftsmanship was a signature characteristic of individuals who worked in those companies of yesteryear?

Remember when a rifle assembled by an experienced gunsmith at Winchester where all the parts used were coincidentally perfectly made and the gun was labeled "one of a thousand" because it shot so consistently? And the price of those special guns was a years wages or more?

If today the price of a well made gun was a years wages, would your gun safe be so full of firearms?

If you prefer a lower, more affordable price, buy a good CNC made rifle assembled by minimum wage earners. (not knocking them, but they're not gunsmiths).

If you prefer a high quality shooter like what Alex Wheeler builds, or so many other fine craftsmen, be prepared to shell out a good portion of a years wages.

Even today, the old saying continues to apply: If you want good, clean, high quality oats, you must expect to pay a fair price for them. But if you're satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, those are a bit cheaper.

There are some exceptions, Remington used to make their actions on old worn out tooling. They have changed to modern machinery and the actions today are a better and more even quality that they used to be. There is nothing wrong with CNC, sure better that old worn out tooling/fixturing. Depends on what you are looking for ( and what your yearly earnings are) but anything close to a years wages is too much.

 

[DirtySteve]

I still have 7-10 blue bags of Winchester 308 brass I bought 15 years ago...lol.. I have a hoarding problem. Luckily I am not trying to find a cure..

 

[rjtfroggy]

You guys have to remember that back in the day Winchester and Remington got their rolled or sheet brass from American companies right here in the Brass Capital of the world, Waterbury Ct. or from a foundry here in the Naugatuck Valley and now they are gone except for one. Replaced with cheaper imported brass.
Remington had a ammo plant in Strafford / Bridgeport and Winchester was in New Haven ( I think ) it was all American owned and produced not anymore.
All those mills left the Naugatuck Valley devastated as far as employment and left mile long factories contaminated and vacant for the cities and state to take down and clean up.

 

[Tommie]

You guys have to remember that back in the day Winchester and Remington got their rolled or sheet brass from American companies right here in the Brass Capital of the world, Waterbury Ct. or from a foundry here in the Naugatuck Valley and now they are gone except for one. Replaced with cheaper imported brass.
Remington had a ammo plant in Strafford / Bridgeport and Winchester was in New Haven ( I think ) it was all American owned and produced not anymore.
All those mills left the Naugatuck Valley devastated as far as employment and left mile long factories contaminated and vacant for the cities and state to take down and clean up.

Spent my first nine years of life in Torrington, CT. Walking to school was a mile long maze around abandoned factories. The Naugatuck Valley was America’s first Silicon Valley and it’s first rust belt.

 

[1lessdog]

I was loading up some 220 Swift this weekend and I had to use a shellholder the next size up. The rim is so thick they would go in a standard shell holder. This brass is maybe 5 yrs old.

 

[TAJ45]

I have a case of '06 Win brass I bought from a military shooter, un primed in 2001?. It did get wet along the way and many are stained but will be squnching themdown to a shorter stature this winter. Looking fwd to the process, for now. Check back when I start the second hundred.