reloads vs factory ammo

[Turkeytider]

For your reloads to group better than factory match ammo. You will need to properly resize brass(for your rifles chamber), hold powder charge weights to 0.10 gr deviation from target node weight and seat bullets within a couple thousandth cbto length. After finding the powder/bullet your rifle tunes with...

Is that as complicated/difficult as it sounds?

 

[pertnear]

I'm getting ready to buy a complete reloading set up for my 6.5 Tikka. I haven't reloaded in over 40 years. I have been shooting factory ammo up to now. My CTR 24" shoots very well with factory Norma Golden Target 130s, Berger 140 hybrids and Sig Elite 140s (all I've tried). With 3 shot groups it is always sub-MOA with any of them at 100 and 200. I have just started shooting F-class at 600 and 1000 with the Norma and I would like to do well. How difficult will it be to make better ammo than factory? I anticipate on spending over $1,000 to get set up to reload, plus components. I have plenty of 1X brass. I got some Federal 210 LRPs recently. Was planning on using the Norma brass, Fed 210 LRPs with H4350 powder and try some Berger Hybrid bullets 130 & 140, and some SMK 142s. It will be very disappointing to not be able to make better ammo than factory. I could buy quite a bit of ammo for that $1000+!
Thanks!
Tom

Just IMHO...
You should be able to reload ammo that is as good & most likely better than factory. This is assuming you can get a few different powders, primers & bullets to work with. The equipment to do this shouldn't cost you a $1,000 either. Some shooters are loading superbly accurate ammo, even with the less expensive Lee equipment. I would recommend Redding dies for match work though.

 

[joshb]

Get:
Redding bushing die set with a couple bushings, 2&3 thousands less than a loaded round neck and a shell holder.
A Hornady Lock & Load set of case and bullet comparators.
A Mitutoyo 12” caliper.
This set:

 

[Tomiboy]

If a loaded round measures .2925" and a fired round measures .2960" would a .291" neck bushing be the right choice?

 

[joshb]

If a loaded round measures .2925" and a fired round measures .2960" would a .291" neck bushing be the right choice?

I would start with the .291 and a .290. You want to measure the neck at 4-5 different locations and average the measurement. Factory brass thickness will vary a little.
Fired brass neck measurements are irrelevant except to know that the chamber neck dimensions are allowing a certain amount of expansion.

 

[SteveOak]

I enjoy reloading, and all the associated aspects, machining, metalurgy, mechanical engineering, internal and external ballistics and the satisfaction of seeing something I figured out and put together, perform so well, almost as much as I enjoy shooting.

In fact, I would not enjoy shooting as much as I do if all of that were not involved.

 

[qec]

As others have said. These is not need to spend $1000 to get started. About half of that should do the trick. Especially if you can find used
Press
Trimmer
Dies
Electronic scale and a trickler

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Is that as complicated/difficult as it sounds?

NO

 

[Rocketvapor]

600 and 1000 will require attention to details, not necessarily more dollars.
A rigid reloading procedure that is consistent as possible.
A good scale (maybe better than 0.1 grain) will allow you to sort bullets by weight, cases, and even primers in addition to ending up with BETTER than 0.1 grain in charge weight. ) 0.1 is likely good enough but to get there you need finer resolution.
Don't totally rely on "Calibration" weights supplied with most scales.
For charges you need a "Check Weight" close to your target charge weight.
Other measurements, for sorting, can be relative to each other and that should be good enough.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Yes, it's really not that hard to produce cartridges that shoot better than factory cartridges. Just how much better depend on how consistent you can make them. You can even improve the factory cartridges if you want to go try that. I did that, just out of curiosity with my .308 cartridges.

I took some 175 gr. Federal Match ammo, pulled 10 bullets dumped the powder into a little glass bowl and measured the powder's total weight then divided it by 10 and reloaded the cases with the average (powder charge between each factory case was not all that consistent). Then I reseated the bullets, being sure the CBTO's were the same. In comparing the results of the 10 rounds that were redone with the other 10 that came from the same box the 10 round groups for the factory were 1.178 MOA and the reworked ones did .689 MOA. Corresponding chrono data was SD of 12.2 fps vs 7.8 for the reworked ones.

I found I could do even better when load and tune my cartridges to my gun where now I get well below .5 MOA. I'd expect with your rig, you can do the same or better. A lot has to do with your process and the quality of components you're using. The first place I'd start is with a good powder scale. I feel you can make Norma brass work well, but IMHO, it's takes a bit of work and sorting of those cases to be sure there's not too much variation is their case volumes.

BTW: I find those 142 SMK's really perform well for me.

Yesterday, a shooter next to me was shooting Federal Premium Gold Medal 168 SMK's with his .308 AR-10 that had a 26" barrel. Being curious as to the velocity of this Federal ammo, he let me set my little Garmin on is shooting table while he fired 10 rounds to record. To my surprise, the average MV was 2709 fps (right where I my loads do well) with an SD of 8.4 and an ES of 25. That's way better than I ever used to get with Federal's best grade of ammo and looks like they might be doing better with quality control. Now I'm so curious, I feel like I'll have to retest this out of my gun to see if this might just be an adoration.

 

[Tomiboy]

Thanks all! Lots of good info here. I am going to buy the equipment. I just built a bench. I'm sure I'll have more questions once I begin.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Keep a note book, each rifle. Note setup, ALL load details and testing results. Being able to repeat your equipment and procedures process is the only way your rifle/targets will be consistent. I believe that if I shoot a couple rounds out hunting, I can go to the bench/press. Setup, take the empty brass, reload them and have ammo that will shoot to my scope zero.

 

[Old Navy]

Some factory ammo like the Hornady 143 ELD-X shoots very good out of a good barrel.

 

[Mark611]

Something else I'm not seeing mentioned in this thread, 1 is barrel life! if you're planning to shoot a lot? keep in mind Barrels only last so long! especially in over bore cartridges,

 

[BigBolt]

Over the 40+ years of hand loading and based on actual MFG ammo standards hand loading better tunes your rounds for your particular gun creating better accuracy. First factory ammo uses the bare minimum powder in accordance with SAAMI. This generates the most profit for the MFG while keeping costs down. The only difference is those MFGs that provide their ballistic standards. Also, the US Gov ammo has standards specified for their systems.

 

[dgeesaman]

There are a lot of reloading techniques out there and equipment required to do it. At first I was pretty confused because no reloading manual offered the same procedure.

Reloading for a basic rifle cartridge is fairly straightforward: it consists of a few overall phases:
1) Push out old primer, clean brass
2) Resize brass (body and neck) and trim if required
3) Press in new primer, add powder, seat bullet.

For already-clean brass and standard full length sizing dies with a primer extractor pin, phase one vanishes.

For phase two, once you get your die set up well you can set it and forget it. Also cartridges with a larger shoulder angle tend to grow very little so trimming may be very infrequent. Some might sort their brass and components but you’re relatively happy with factory ammo so I suggest you hold off on that for now. You can try various bushings and depths to adjust neck tension but I’d use the .290 and ignore that variable for now.

Phase three is well documented and where most of the tuning happens. Here’s where you’ll probably see the most accuracy improvements due to controlling these steps well and trying different components and seating depths.

 

[7br]

What He Said!!-K22 took the words right out of my mouth. I can tell you that you’re already in a good place getting good, solid info from some of the outstanding people on this forum. I’ve been handloading 50+ years and I’m still learning things from them. JSH touched on a very important point, and that is READ, READ and then READ MORE. Whenever I’m trying something different like caliber, components, etc. I cross reference from loading manuals old and new.

 

[David Milisock]

I'm getting ready to buy a complete reloading set up for my 6.5 Tikka. I haven't reloaded in over 40 years. I have been shooting factory ammo up to now. My CTR 24" shoots very well with factory Norma Golden Target 130s, Berger 140 hybrids and Sig Elite 140s (all I've tried). With 3 shot groups it is always sub-MOA with any of them at 100 and 200. I have just started shooting F-class at 600 and 1000 with the Norma and I would like to do well. How difficult will it be to make better ammo than factory? I anticipate on spending over $1,000 to get set up to reload, plus components. I have plenty of 1X brass. I got some Federal 210 LRPs recently. Was planning on using the Norma brass, Fed 210 LRPs with H4350 powder and try some Berger Hybrid bullets 130 & 140, and some SMK 142s. It will be very disappointing to not be able to make better ammo than factory. I could buy quite a bit of ammo for that $1000+!
Thanks!
Tom

I've been reloading for well over 50 years and the experience today is different than it was earlier.

Years ago the ability to factory load quality ammo was not what it is today. The reloading experience varies by what I'm loading for, my 30-06, my 6,5 x 55 Swede and my 358 Norma easily benefit in terms of speed and accuracy from reloads.

Today we have ammo manufacturers creating cartridges and the chamber specifications giving the manufacturer better control in manufacturing ammo that more closely matches the rifle chamber. That does not mean that you can't do better with reloads, it means that you'll need to be a precision reloader. You say your rifle is a 6.5. A 6.5 what?

As an example my 6MM ARC in my Aero Precision AR15 shoots with 105 grain match ammo exceptionally well. Working within the pressure limitation of an AR15, and the parameters of a magazine fed self loading mechanism it would take a month of Sundays to improve on factory ammo. However the 103 ELD is more cost effective to handload. This is a cartridge designed by the ammo manufacturer and an upper built by a company that partnered with the ammo manufacturer.

I've read reliable data that some shooters are doing well hand loading lighter bullets for thec6 ARC.

 

[Tomiboy]

6.5 CM

 

[Tesoro]

Every met an avid fly fisherman who doesn't tie his own flies? Or an offshore fisherman who doesn't rig his own baits? Ever met a hunter who paid someone else to take him hunting?