Reloading the Berger 85.5 Hybrid
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shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
Started with CFE223 powder. Loaded five each starting at 23.2 and ending at 23.7 grains. Used CCI400 primers and .010 off lands (2.071" CBTO with Hornady comparator). Rifle is a new build with Krieger 6.5 twist and throated for 90VLD. All groups were shot at 100 yards. It finally started to open up (or I just blew it) at 23.7 grains (slightly over recommended max per Hodgdon). All showed zero pressure in Lapua brass. Forgot the chrono so no data but, if Hodgdon is correct, the 23.7 should get me a bit over 2800 FPS. loaded Varget today and hope to try one day this week.
I may be greedy but really want to see a solid 2,850 from the 26" barrel without it being a brass killer.
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Because he's trying to equal the ballistics of the .30 cal, 155 gr. Sierra and Berger bullets. Will he ever get there? That remains to be seen, but I have seen good paper ballistics go down the tubes when the wind starts blowing hard while heavier bullets hold better. In MY opinion and seems in real life, the heavier bullet you can shoot the better off you'll be. But most can't shoot 220 gr. bullets out of a 300 Win mag so we have to settle for something lesser. The "holy grail" I guess would be to get something working in the .223 that everyone could shoot. Like most others I'll give it a try and see what happens at 1,000 yds.
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I shoot my 223 regularly in a match with targets at known distance 600, 800, 900 & 1,000 yards.
Wind and bullet stabiiization deal havoc to the 223. I've done pretty well with the 80VLD here but I'm pushing it to 2980 FPS from a 26" barrel. The load shoots well at 600 & 800 but doesn't always fare well at 900 & 1,000. Hoping to find that elusive panecea that makes me invincible .
BTW, the rifle was built by @Danley of Danley Precision. He's a one man shop and does fantastic work.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
I have some, but haven’t been able to try this one yet; but I think 2850 from a 26” is asking too much. I think you can get it from a 30” barrel, and maybe even get it to tune there, but not from a 26 w/o killing the brass.
Most of us who have shot the 90 get it to tune in from the high 2700s to the low 2800s from a 30 with about a 190 freebore, 80s seem to run in the upper 2800s from the same setup so I have to think that from a 26 you are going to hit the wall in the mid 2700s.
Reports are that running the 90s H4895 seems to tune in faster than Varget, but at the cost of shorter brass life.
Most of us who have shot the 90 get it to tune in from the high 2700s to the low 2800s from a 30 with about a 190 freebore, 80s seem to run in the upper 2800s from the same setup so I have to think that from a 26 you are going to hit the wall in the mid 2700s.
Reports are that running the 90s H4895 seems to tune in faster than Varget, but at the cost of shorter brass life.
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
I was limited to 26" by the rules of the match. As fast as I'm pushing the 80VLD from 26" I really think I can find an upper node and brass still survive. By survive, I mean last five to six cycles before it gets culled. H4895, at least for me, hasn't shown the stability of Varget. Not sure CFE223 will be much different. Maybe I should look into AR-Comp. It is supposed to be one of the new temp-stable powders.
I really feel 2000-MR would get me what I want (maybe even AA2520) but past experience says they tend to wander with changes in conditions.
I shoot the .223/90 VLD combination. I point the bullets slightly. The load has an average MV of approx. 2850 fps according to my Labradar. The one time I shot over a Shotmarker at 600 yards, the average velocity of 18 shots, at the target, was 1919 fps with an SD of 10.7. BTW, the Berger online calculator predicts 1961 fps (with unpointed bullets) with my muzzle velocity and altitude.
Dave Rabin
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
I've run the 80.5 Fullbores at 2860 fps from a 26" barrel without any brass issues whatsoever. I know some shooters running the 80 VLDs at well over 2900 fps from 26" barrels. They claim their brass life is fine. I'd imagine the 85.5 can be pushed to ~2850-ish fps from a 26" barrel with the right powder/primer combination, but whether there is an accuracy node there and what the brass life will be is anyone's guess. If there is a good node in that velocity region, it might work very well, IF the velocity remains stable over 20+ shot strings of fire, AND the primer pockets aren't torched in a couple firings (or less).
If you insist in using a .223 Rem at 1000 yd, there really is no substitute for the 90 VLD. Anyone can run the numbers for comparison. Just remember that the box BC value is pretty much all you're going to get from the 85.5, as they come pointed from the manufacturer. So you're looking at a G7 BC of 0.268 versus 0.290, which is what I estimate for pointed 90 VLDs. At 800 to 1000 yd, there is no contest, the 90 VLD will win hands down in terms of wind deflection. The downside to that is that the tuning issues, potential jacket failures, and poor brass life associated with running the 90s will have to be dealt with and/or simply accepted. Performance almost always has a price.
If you insist in using a .223 Rem at 1000 yd, there really is no substitute for the 90 VLD. Anyone can run the numbers for comparison. Just remember that the box BC value is pretty much all you're going to get from the 85.5, as they come pointed from the manufacturer. So you're looking at a G7 BC of 0.268 versus 0.290, which is what I estimate for pointed 90 VLDs. At 800 to 1000 yd, there is no contest, the 90 VLD will win hands down in terms of wind deflection. The downside to that is that the tuning issues, potential jacket failures, and poor brass life associated with running the 90s will have to be dealt with and/or simply accepted. Performance almost always has a price.
fatelvis
Silver $$ Contributor
Is this for a 223 Rem?
shoot4fun
Gold $$ Contributor
Yes.
I've just about decided to stay with Varget. Still doing testing on just where my barrel is happy with the most velocity and best brass life. I have this built on a Remington 700 action with a bushed bolt and Sako-type extractor so I'm measuring case head expansion and primer pockets to get an idea of pressure.
Maxden
Silver $$ Contributor
Who did the bolt bushing for you, if you don’t mind?
dusterdave173
Silver $$ Contributor
I am waiting on my rifle to come back from my smith--getting a 28 in 7 twist he says he is throating for the 85.5 ( and 80) he wanted to plan on the 90's but they seem so hard to get--are harder to tune--and most of all my new range is just 600 yds so I am confident it will all work out. Hawk Hill had the barrel so that is how they got the business. Bluecollar had plenty of the 85.5 on the shelf--I have a pile of Varget so fingers crossed--hope to have it back in a week or so. I just want to play at 600 and have this rifle for a long shot at PD's while staying with 223. I have another to use with lighter bullets and closer shots. Sticking with 223 all the way to keep things simple
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