Reloading Mentor for Newbie?

[Phil3]

Back in November of 2008, I posed questions on learning to reload, and got good answers. Six months later,reasons I need not explain), I am moving ahead on reloading,and procurement of equipment). One previous suggestion was to find a mentor, especially one in precision reloading since that is what I want to do,with 6mmBR). I know of no better expertise than the people here when it comes to precision reloading processes. I may be presumptuous, but would surely be appreciative if I could just see things in person, ask questions, etc. I am in the San Francisco bay area. I just want to do this correctly.

Or, I could buy this.

http://www.riflemagazine.com/catalog/detail.cfm?ProductID=1366

Thanks for your help.

- Phil

 

[Winchester69]

HandLoader magazine is a good publication, but the level of precision is aimed more to the hunter than target shooter, and nowhere close to BR techniques and rituals. John Barsness' video,it may have been my suggestion) will be beneficial as you learn, but you will need to be exposed to the BR game and shooters to get to where you want to go. I would suggest that you get ahold of Glen Zediker's Handloading for Competition and begin studying it after you've gotten your feet wet. There are other good books pertaining directly to BR that others will suggest.

Your desire to find a mentor is a wise one, and going to where the BR people are shooting may be the direct path to one, if you don't attract one here. Perhaps a weekend trip to Sacramento is in order?
.

 

[Phil3]

HandLoader magazine is a good publication, but the level of precision is aimed more to the hunter than target shooter, and nowhere close to BR techniques and rituals. John Barsness' video,it may have been my suggestion) will be beneficial as you learn, but you will need to be exposed to the BR game and shooters to get to where you want to go. I would suggest that you get ahold of Glen Zediker's Handloading for Competition and begin studying it after you've gotten your feet wet. There are other good books pertaining directly to BR that others will suggest.

Your desire to find a mentor is a wise one, and going to where the BR people are shooting may be the direct path to one, if you don't attract one here. Perhaps a weekend trip to Sacramento is in order?
.

The video I linked to was taken from your message back in 2008. I have already purchased Glen Zediker's book on competition reloading, but I find it 'starts' at a level that is above my head, hence a need to learn the basics beforehand. I also have the Lyman reloading manual, and the 'ABCs of Reloading'. I floated the idea of mentoring at a Sacramento match,just once I admit), and no takers, but seems a little forward of me to try and secure a mentor with people I do not even know. Nonetheless, I will make the trip to Sacramento, as I also want to better learn the range there, the facilities, etc. Two hour drive to get there.

- Phil

 

[billmo]

PHIL, JUST ANOTHER COUPLE OF BOOKS THAT MAY DO A LITTLE MORE GOOD THAN YOU THINK. I FOUND BACK IN 96 WHEN I BEGAN TO HANDLOAD THAT ONE OF THE BULLET MANF. MANUALS DID MORE FOR MY UNDERSTANDING THAN ANY OTHER MATERIAL. I ALSO FOUND THAT A BOOK CALLED PRECISION SHOOTING RELOADING GUIDE FROM SINCLAIR INTL. WAS VERY HELPFUL WITH THE MORE ADVANCED TOPICS AND PROCEDURES. ALONG WITH THOSE TWO BOOKS AND ALL OF THE KNOWLEDGE HERE ON 6BR YOU SHOULD BE IN GOOD HANDS. JUST A THOUGHT. BILL

 

[Winchester69]

I looked at your old threads and saw that lynn had extended an invitation to visit Sacramento. You need to go to a match to see what the competitors are doing in their range loading. The experience will be important to you when selecting equipment.

I agree that Zediker isn't a how-to for beginners, but once you get the rudiments down you'll be ready.

 

[Phil3]

Yes, Lynn did invite me, and I accepted. Fact is, he invited me twice, and I went both times, where he was generous in explanations. Gunfire noise made it hard to converse, and the material was often too advanced at my knowledge level. I felt like a freshman in graduate school. I would like to have learned more, but Lynn was in a match at Sacramento and did not want to impair his chances of doing well. Lynn was explaining some of the work he was doing on his rounds, but I struggled at times to make sense of it with my elementary knowledge.

I will continue to read as much as possible, and search out videos, but simply seeing a single round put together from start to finish, in person, where one can see the equipment operate, would be a huge benefit I think. Other have learned the process without personal tutoring and will learn it, one way or the other. Just enthusiastic about getting going and doing it right.

- Phil

 

[Phil3]

PHIL, JUST ANOTHER COUPLE OF BOOKS THAT MAY DO A LITTLE MORE GOOD THAN YOU THINK. I FOUND BACK IN 96 WHEN I BEGAN TO HANDLOAD THAT ONE OF THE BULLET MANF. MANUALS DID MORE FOR MY UNDERSTANDING THAN ANY OTHER MATERIAL. I ALSO FOUND THAT A BOOK CALLED PRECISION SHOOTING RELOADING GUIDE FROM SINCLAIR INTL. WAS VERY HELPFUL WITH THE MORE ADVANCED TOPICS AND PROCEDURES. ALONG WITH THOSE TWO BOOKS AND ALL OF THE KNOWLEDGE HERE ON 6BR YOU SHOULD BE IN GOOD HANDS. JUST A THOUGHT. BILL

I'll check bullet makers for any books. No precision reloading book at Sinclair's, but there is a $20 DVD. I'll get that. No doubt, the forum is a wealth of info, and will be exceedingly useful once I have the basics mastered.

- Phil

 

[Winchester69]

RCBS has a DVD that is very basic and is inexpensive. Starting from scratch, it may be helpful. Since you're looking for basic help, posting your request on other forums may put you in touch with more reloaders in your area. Recognize that BR loading is a different approach, and the methods and equipment are often different.

No precision reloading book at Sinclair's....

People frequently recommend a book derived from Precision Shooting Magazine and reference Sinclair. I haven't seen it in a Sinclair catalog in years. They are carrying another Precision Shooting book, The Benchrest Shooting Primer. It may may be less useful now, but at some point in the future it can introduce you to the game. Benchrest Central is another forum that may be informative.

 

[GermanS1]

Phil, if you're still looking for a basic reloading guide, it's hard to beat this $10 book from NRA. I've used it to teach reloading to many people. It's a thorough introduction to the subject.
http://www.nrastore.com/nra/Product.aspx?productid=PB%2001779

 

[Phil3]

Recognize that BR loading is a different approach, and the methods and equipment are often different.

This is what concerns me...basic reloading may not be entirely applicable to 6BR. I asked about this in the following thread, and my concerns were largely set aside. It appears you may have a different opinion?

http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3477066

- Phil

 

[queen_stick]

Phil:

Winchester69 was referencing a 'benchrest' reloading regiment,regardless of cartridge) when he used the term 'BR.' He was not specifying the 6BR cartridge. Reloading for benchrest,accuracy) is A LOT different,A lot more involved/detailed, and more time consuming) than loading for hunting or plinking. Reloading for the 6BR cartridge is no different than the steps taken to load any other cartridge.

 

[Phil3]

Phil:

Winchester69 was referencing a 'benchrest' reloading regiment,regardless of cartridge) when he used the term 'BR.' He was not specifying the 6BR cartridge. Reloading for benchrest,accuracy) is A LOT different,A lot more involved/detailed, and more time consuming) than loading for hunting or plinking. Reloading for the 6BR cartridge is no different than the steps taken to load any other cartridge.

Understood. I recognize that loading for accuracy is a more precise process than ordinary reloading, but not sure 'how' it is different and things to pay attention to. Knowledge of this would help ensure I do things right,and buy right equipment) to optimize accuracy.

I watched YouTube videos on basic reloading,some are quite good), and am also reading multiple books, including one on competition reloading by Glen Zediker,difficult for me to comprehend all).

- Phil

 

[Winchester69]

Zediker does a good job of making himself hard to understand, and that's probably a great deal of the problem. Get ahold of John Barsness' video; he'll give you a better idea of what Zediker is getting at.

Most people reload at home and, for shooting at distance, adapt their regimen to that locale and those loads. Benchrest shooters do their final load preparation at the range and have a process and the equipment to simplify their process. They use special presses, dies, powder measures, and component preparation for that environment. That is why I suggested that you familiarize yourself with that process before proceeding too far. I'm not personally familiar with the book by Precision Shooting,the one that Sinclair currently sells), but it may serve as an introduction to benchrest techniques. You'll be better able to plan your own path.

 

[Phil3]

Zediker does a good job of making himself hard to understand, and that's probably a great deal of the problem.

So I am not the only one who think this. Zediker's book is one I want to read for content and education, but dread reading because his writing style is so odd. From what I can tell, and knowing myself, I think I would be quite comfortable, and find it satisfying, to construct precision rounds.

- Phil

 

[Winchester69]

He calms down a bit after the first few chapters; that, and you'll become inured to his style. You need to acquire enough knowledge to understand his discussions,with himself?) before the book will have value. When you understand it, you'll have everything except the BR practices.

 

[TheBlueEyedBear]

The best of the books I read was the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide. Many of the other books also had good info also. But, for me, it was when I purchased the Precision Reloading for Accuracy DVD that things really came together for me. The DVD sells for $24.00 from Richard's Custom Rifles;
Istructional DVD
After watching Richard,Franklin) go thruough the steps that I had previously read in the books, the lightbulb came on.
This is well worth the purchase.

 

[glo]

Hi Phil,
I see a lot of good suggestions here but what escapes me and maybe yourself is this question, “What game do you want to play?”

You have mentioned that you want to reload 6mmBR. My question is for what; 100m, 300m, 600m or 1000yd bench rest; light or heavy bench rest; 1000yd prone or just weekend recreation? Each one of these “games” uses a different rifle. Each rifle needs to be reloaded differently. However, each one of the rifles and the “games” can use the same cartridge: the 6mmBR.

If you could be a bit more specific as to what rifle you are shooting and for which “game”, I think we can be more helpful.

So the next question I would have is at what level of reloading are you at?

Beginning reloading is about just buying the reloading components and reloading a cartridge. You buy cases, primers, powder and bullets. Then follow the reloading manual.

Intermediate reloading is all about adding case preparation and load work-up to your routine. You might clean out primer pocket and debur the flash hole then turn the neck and trim the case to length. You would also start your loads 10% light then work up to max pressures by looking for flatten primer or case head expansion over 5 ten thousandths of an inch.

Expert reloading is the tuning of an intermediate reload to a specific rifle. First you would buy only premium components; bench rest primers, custom bullets, lapua brass and maybe only one powder. You would now take into consideration bullet to land contact and case neck tension. You would not only work your loads up but now you would chronograph them. You are looking for the load with the smallest Standard Deviation without going over max load pressure. You would also invest in premium reloading equipment.

I live in Los Angeles but would be more then glad to help you along until you find some one closer to home. Greg

 

[Phil3]

Greg,

You ask good questions which when as answered below, will serve to better define what my shooting world is planned to be.

This is weekend recreation, no competition. Shooting venues in my location are limited, and will be shooting mostly at 100 and 200 yards off a bench. Rarely, possibly out to 600 yards and prone. Rifle is to be a Savage Long Range Precision Varminter single shot in 6mmBR, as well as 223 Remington and 6mmAR for AR15s, both built for maximum accuracy. None of these rifles are optimal for strictly benchrest, but I am after the accuracy for each, and of course, the proper loads that will deliver it. It is possible I suppose these rifles may not benefit from highly developed ammunition. I don’t know. I may later want to do dedicated benchrest shooting and will need the skills and equipment for ammo development.

Of the three choices of reloading presented, my interest lies between the intermediate to expert level. I am fine with experimenting with loads for each rifle and fine tuning each for the gun. I may move more to expert as I learn more.

Since I have no reloading equipment now, I want to buy the right stuff the first time. I am looking at Forster, Redding, Wilson, brands and a RCBS Chargemaster, chronograph, and other quality equipment to develop precision rounds. I already pretty much decided on Lapua brass, and factory bullets, primers, and powders as defined in the cartridge section of the 6mmbr.com. I know the investment can be steep, but that is OK.

It would thrill me to have the Savage or AR15 shoot groups that most people would think is not possible. Those groups may be laughable in benchrest circles, but I am after the best these rifles can do. The dedicated benchrest rifle will come later.

I welcome your willingness to help. My next objective is to develop a proper shopping list of equipment for the reloading bench. I would appreciate assistance with that.

- Phil

 

[billmo]

PHIL, GREG HAS GIVEN YOU SOME OF THE BEST INFO THAT YOU COULD RECEIVE FROM ANYONE. I COMMEND HIS EFFORTS TO TRY AND HELP YOU AND YOURS FOR THE DESIRE TO LEARN. IT IS A VERY REWARDING HOBBY IN MANY WAYS, BUT IT ALSO CAN BE VERY CONFUSING AND SOMETIMES CAUSE YOU TO SCRATCH YOUR WATCH AND WIND YOUR BUTT. BUT, WITH HIS HELP AND YOU BEING ABLE TO BRING QUESTIONS TO THIS BOARD, I THINK YOU WILL PROGRESS QUICKLY. ONE OTHER THOUGHT. PURCHASE THE BEST EQUIPMENT AND TOOLS THAT YOU CAN FIND. IT WILL MAKE LIFE EASIER ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND ALL THAT IS BEING TOSSED AT YOU. BILL

 

[glo]

Good morning Phil.
Okay, I see a starting place for you. However, one more issue need be covered. You are planning on two rifles, a Savage Long Range Precision Varminter and an AR15; “…both to be built for maximum accuracy.” I am inferring that you want near bench rest accuracy from stock rifles that have been accurisized? Meaning, triggers tuned, action squared, lugs lapped, etcetera.

The reason I ask, is this, “the best hand loaded cartridge is no better than the rifle you are shooting.” So my suggestion is this so you can get the most out of you rifles and Handloading experience.

1) If you haven’t already bought the Savage don’t, go with a Remington 700 Short Action.
2) Any rifle needs a premium, stainless steel, match grade barrel.
3) Have that new barrel installed with a match or tight chamber.
4) Install an aftermarket trigger; typical a Jewell trigger.

Now onto your reloading components and equipment, Lapua brass is always the best. Primers: well there are none right now but by the time you are ready to shoot there should be a supply. Buy bench rest primers. Bullets: considering the range and the rifles you are shooting, I would go with a premium flat base bullet; like Berger or look for a bullet maker here at 6mmBR.com. Powder: Varget is the perennial favorite for the cartridge sizes you have chosen. I’ll explain why at another time, if you don’t already know. Otherwise just check out the Info Page for you cartridge here at 6mmBR.com.

Equipment, wow that’s a big and wide list, I would say buy the biggest single stage press you can. The coaxial press from Forster is good too. I would wait to buy Wilson equipment until you are in the bench rest game. Buy competition dies that use neck bushings and includes the 'full length' case sizing die. Get a good balance beam scale, bench rest powder thrower an electronic powder dispenser and an electronic scale,I know that was two of the same, one manual and one electronic). Get a powder trickler. Get a neck turning kit, case trimmer and a bullet pulling die,remember the mandrels for each caliber). Get Hornady unique case lube and some reloading trays. Get a flash hole and primer pocket cleaner from Sinclair as well as a case neck chamfer. Get a 6” dial caliper and a 1” vernier caliper to .0001”, also a bullet comparator for the specific caliber you are shooting.

Redding, Hornady, Forster and RCBS are all good equipment. Supplement with Sinclair and Wilson for the specific equipment you may need in the future. All these companies make the same type of equipment but some feel and work a little differently. This is a personal issue that you must work through your self. Sometimes we buy a good product but it just doesn’t work for our selves. Then you have to bit the bullet and buy that same equipment from another vender. Ergonomics is not something I can tell you. You have to know or experiment for your self.

That above shopping list of equipment will run you about $1500.00, another $500 for reloading components.
Greg