Reloading manuals

[COLT45SA]

IF I have one powder or more that is not listed in any reloading manual for the caliber I want to reload, and those powders fall close to the burn rate of those listed for the caliber I want to reload, would it be safe to start with the minimum charge recommended for the listed powder~??
I'm shooting an original 1885 Low-Wall Winchester originally built in 1892. It's been converted to .38 Special with a new barrel liner. The barrel is 26" long.
Before anyone starts to chastise me for converting this old gem I'll tell you that I bought it with a badly cracked stock and a shot out bore. It was chambered in .25RF, and therefore pretty useless. Someday I may have the receiver case-colors redone and the barrel redone in the period correct blue.

 

[K22]

What cartridge - what powder?

Lee has the largest load selection I've ever seen. Maybe someone on here that has their latest Manual can help you out if you identify the cartridge and powder.

I'm not about to offer any recommendations beyond published data developed under laboratory testing but it's difficult to believe that if it's a suitable powder for that cartridge, then the powder mfg. would surely have data for it, after all they want to sale as much powder as possible.

 

[JohnW...ski]

I am not saying its a good idea but, I load a lot of wildcats that I have no load data for at all and that is what I do.

 

[Willoughby]

not the same as op but I have seen some bullet weights with data for only for a powder I don't have or want - I choose a similar bullet weight for the powder I want to use.

 

[C_Ackley]

Often there are many suitable powders for a given cartridge/bullet combination that fly under the radar, never to be published. I'm not going to recommend it, but won't condemn it either.
I actually have a similar question though:
Say I have a bottlenecked wildcat cartridge with an identical case capacity(in h2o) to a common, longer straightwall cartridge. They both use the same diameter/weight bullets. Can I use this published, common cartridge data as a basis for loading my wildcat that I have?

 

[jepp2]

would it be safe to start with the minimum charge recommended for the listed powder~??

Maybe, maybe not. Like mentioned by others, I also load for some wildcats that have no recommended load data available. This is where a program like Quickload or GRT can be very useful. I've found with QL, if I use the Ba value (powder burn rate) from the same lot of powder for a similar size water capacity cartridge, the calculations will be very close. But, I run every load over a chrono and record velocities. And by starting low and working up, I can see if I am trending toward a problem.

Can I use this published, common cartridge data as a basis for loading my wildcat that I have?

Quickload is specifically designed for bottle neck cartridges. But I've had some good success for straightwall handgun cartridges. But I always expect the calculations might be considerable off from the actual. So I would be very cautious about expecting a straight wall case to behave similarly to a bottle neck case even with the same internal capacity.

I recently started shooting a 6.5 PRC. Load data mostly available tends to be extremely slow burn rate powder to achieve maximum velocities. But when I compare it to my 25-06 I find the internal capacity basically the same. But even with both being bottle neck cartridges, I'm not confident in using faster burn rate powders in similar loadings. Cartridge geometry does play a role in powder combustion.

But I may be more cautious than some other folks.

 

[Mark611]

Try to find someone on youtube who is loading or has tried a combo like your wanting to use, I have done that with my 6.5Grendel, I have tried all the recommended load data with the common powders available, some I have not tried, but I did find out but I have also always known, what works in someone else's rifle my not work in your rifle, for example I have seen a lot of folks talk about AR Comp in this caliber, my manuals don't have a listing for this powder, but from loading other extruded powders I know this case can hold 27 to 28gns of these types of powders, I loaded 2 test loads with 27.1 and 27.4gns both loads were perfect for my rifle, they gave me the speed and accuracy I have been looking for from my rifle, with no pressure signs at all! so be safe and experiment to find what your looking for JMO.

 

[Big Mc]

IF I have one powder or more that is not listed in any reloading manual for the caliber I want to reload, and those powders fall close to the burn rate of those listed for the caliber I want to reload, would it be safe to start with the minimum charge recommended for the listed powder~??
I'm shooting an original 1885 Low-Wall Winchester originally built in 1892. It's been converted to .38 Special with a new barrel liner. The barrel is 26" long.
Before anyone starts to chastise me for converting this old gem I'll tell you that I bought it with a badly cracked stock and a shot out bore. It was chambered in .25RF, and therefore pretty useless. Someday I may have the receiver case-colors redone and the barrel redone in the period correct blue.

I check QuickLoad. It helps. Has stoped me from ER trips. Tommy Mc

 

[JSH]

IF I have one powder or more that is not listed in any reloading manual for the caliber I want to reload, and those powders fall close to the burn rate of those listed for the caliber I want to reload, would it be safe to start with the minimum charge recommended for the listed powder~??
I'm shooting an original 1885 Low-Wall Winchester originally built in 1892. It's been converted to .38 Special with a new barrel liner. The barrel is 26" long.
Before anyone starts to chastise me for converting this old gem I'll tell you that I bought it with a badly cracked stock and a shot out bore. It was chambered in .25RF, and therefore pretty useless. Someday I may have the receiver case-colors redone and the barrel redone in the period correct blue.

38 Special is so easy to load for and so many recipes out their old and new, why force feed it something questionable?
Maybe if you mentioned the powder some one may have actual data. I have manuals from back in the 40’s to present.

 

[C_Ackley]

But I may be more cautious than some other folks.

No, you're correct and it pays to be careful. The hobby is enjoyable, but not necessarily playing.
Tough to consider every factor when trying to estimate pressure of something without data to reference. Bullet weight, bearing surface, case capacity, seating depth, powder selection. I have no idea how case geometry affects pressure without being a function of case capacity, but I'm sure it does too.

 

[dellet]

Considering the age and inherent weakness of the action you're using, I wouldn't stray too far form the books with experimenting.

The .38 Special was originally a black powder cartridge, well suited for the action, also designed for black powder pressures.

Based on experience of using powders next to each other on the burn rate chart, seeing those same powders flip flop 3-4 positions in differing charts, seeing the pressure differentials in programs like quickload, and seeing the results when fired in strong or modern actions, before firing in antiques, I would not suggest substituting powders based on where they fall on the chart.

When minimum and maximum loads are often only 3/10 of a grain spread, one powders minimum could well be over the next powder's maximum.

Something that you might consider is using Remington 1 1/2 primers. Probably the softest/thinnest primer on the market. It's a safety valve. It will show pressure pressure signs long before other primers and help keep you out of trouble. About the best you can do until you start working with a reloading program that can predict pressures.

 

[RegionRat]

I'm shooting an original 1885 Low-Wall Winchester originally built in 1892. It's been converted to .38 Special with a new barrel liner. The barrel is 26" long.

If the pressure rating of your new hardware is typical, and you play it safe, then 38 SPCL is very easy to work with.

I'm going to suggest that since this hardware is a little unusual, and since you are making what I call "leap of faith" tests with unlisted recipes.... why risk it in this rig?

Instead, grab a very sturdy 357 Mag design like a Ruger or an established 357 rifle and develop the load there first, and then use it in your experimental rig.

This way if you screwed up the extrapolation from unknown bullets and powder combinations, you are covered by the extra safety margin of a very sturdy rig and not one that you don't want to risk. Good Luck. YMMV

 

[Laurie]

Based on experience of using powders next to each other on the burn rate chart, seeing those same powders flip flop 3-4 positions in differing charts, seeing the pressure differentials in programs like quickload, and seeing the results when fired in strong or modern actions, before firing in antiques, I would not suggest substituting powders based on where they fall on the chart.

When minimum and maximum loads are often only 3/10 of a grain spread, one powders minimum could well be over the next powder's maximum.

I too don't trust relative burn-rate chart positions. These charts are only suitable for identifying the approximate category the powder lies in, and should never be used for transposing charge weights from one powder to another. As @dellet says, the smaller the cartridge and charge weights involved, the greater the risk in this practice. To do so for an original antique rifle is crazy.