Reloading issue with Remington .308 brass

[ireload2]

I more or less subscribe to it because I often buy lots of 200 to 500 or more of brass from indoor ranges.
I have no interest in checking all of it in my rifle and having to tap some out of the chamber with a cleaning rod.
They all get FL sized with a die set to give me exactly .000 clearance. Then I might check them if I have a case gage if not I use the rifle chamber. Any case that is tight gets FL sized again though none ever are. Once FL sized, these cases never have to be tapped out with a cleaning rod. I do this to avoid having to cull the brass in the first place and to avoid having to keep it segregated by fits or does not fit since I am about to sort it again for weight.

I sort all of this range brass by weight to find outliers. I normally enter all the weight data into a spreadsheet and graph it.
I examine the graph for a normal, skewed or bimodal distribution. Any outliers get examined to determine any reason for being abnormally heavy or light. I gage all the primer pockets for expander primer pockets.

Depending on how good I want the main lot to be I use the 4 sigmas (plus or minus some) in the middle of the distribution. The heavy cases in the right hand tail of the distribution form a smaller lot that I use to work up loads with if it is reasonably uniform. These cases will normally be the heaviest with the lowest water capacity. Loads safe in these heavy cases should be safe in the lighter cases. The lightest cases found in the left hand tail of the distribution are used to make up a lighter lot. This lot can be stored and used for spares or can be swapped or sold. This lot can also be used for hunting and varmints like the main lot of cases while the main lot is being processed into a new batch of ammo.

If you run into a bi-modal (2 humps in the graphed data) distribution you probably have brass from 2 different production lots. If you have 3 or 4 humps you have multiple lots of brass.
If you have a left hand tail and a right hand tail and no brass in between you have cases that someone like me bought and culled. The best and most uniform cases have been removed. All that is left are the heavy and light cases.

If you are a new reloader skip all the case weighing. Learn how to set your FL die exactly right and you will be miles ahead in understanding what makes for good reloaded ammo. Then resize all your brass and load it. Then go to the range and shoot it for almost instant gratification. Once you have set up and reloaded several batches you will have a good back ground for exploring more hand loading minutia.

This ^ I don't subscribe to.
If I collect once fired range brass and it fits my chamber without issue I neck size it, case prep it and reload it. The first firing will form it to my chamber just as if it was FL sized and you'll likely get ~5 reloads before there is a need to bump the shoulders back. With say 50 brass that's a lot of loading for a newbie by which time you've learnt the basics and can proceed onto more advanced techniques.

For those new at reloading the fewer processes that one has to master is an advantage before you become familiar with them all and as a newbie expecting sub 1/2" groups is fairyland unless by some chance you stumble on a load combination that's really good.

 

[243Lapua]

This ^ I don't subscribe to.
If I collect once fired range brass and it fits my chamber without issue I neck size it, case prep it and reload it. The first firing will form it to my chamber just as if it was FL sized and you'll likely get ~5 reloads before there is a need to bump the shoulders back. With say 50 brass that's a lot of loading for a newbie by which time you've learnt the basics and can proceed onto more advanced techniques.

For those new at reloading the fewer processes that one has to master is an advantage before you become familiar with them all and as a newbie expecting sub 1/2" groups is fairyland unless by some chance you stumble on a load combination that's really good.

LOL. This is the best BS trying to help out a new reloader. This just made my day. Next thing you might advise is to jam rocks into the lands and produce powder out of soil.

 

[Quiksand]

Wow! Very active forum! I have a lot of reading to do. I was a machinist for while, which helps me know something about precision... I think all knowledge has been great and pointed me in the right directions. I purchased a head space gauge and to confirm what you've all said the head space is right about where it should be according to sammi specs and I am FL sizing the brass. Used the Lee case trimmer and put them on the money at 2.005. Cleaned the primer pocket and used the hand priming tool from the kit that worked fantastic! I am feeling a bit more comfortable with the process- last thing I need to do is mess something up and hurt myself or those around. Next up is measuring powder and seat the bullet. Just taking my sweet time and learning more and more. I am being very cautious with this process right at the moment, but really enjoying it as well. I truly appreciate all the good advice. Once I get the bench setup completely and decide how to organize it I will post a pic.

 

[Homerange]

Respectfully.......Gotta love some of the BS suggestions you see posted when you try and teach a newbie the proper ways to resize and reload ammo. Clearly this poster has little experience in rifle chambers (custom or across the counter) and trying to load/shoot accurate load. If FL resizing OVERLOADS the mind of a new reloader or creates more unnecessary work or steps, then pigs must fly as well. Any introductory Reloading Book or manual (plus advanced Reloading Books written by some of the top world wide competitors) I've ever read in the last 50+ years clearly is written for new reloaders and instructs to FL resize all brass and later moves into Neck resizing once that brass has been fireformed in your specific rifle. Sorry my friend, I strongly disagree with your post and dare say you are promoting a bad idea and poor techniques!

Alex

Respectfully........... One can only imagine that the OP has saved factory brass from previous shooting and now wants to start reloading.......now he doesn't make this clear.
If indeed this is the case then as his brass has been fire formed to his chamber the simplest way to go forward would be to neck size and shoot.
Likewise we have little idea if the OP wishes to load for hunting (as one would strongly suspect) as it's most unlikely that he's venturing into F class just yet.

Sure if you want to push boundaries as many of you guys do then the OP would be wise to get all the gear advised but personally I've never had any need or want of it. Most of my rifles can cloverleaf @ 100 and that's more than good enough for hunting purposes.
All my loading is done with Lee Collet dies that cover 6 calibers and I've been loading for 40+ years.

Different roads may finish at the same destination.

 

[kvd]

If I collect once fired range brass and it fits my chamber without issue I neck size it, case prep it and reload it. The first firing will form it to my chamber just as if it was FL sized and you'll likely get ~5 reloads before there is a need to bump the shoulders back.

May not get a full 5 cycles before FL sizing is required but maybe 2 or 3.
I personally do not see anything wrong with this advice with the caveat that the range brass may allow the bolt to close on the rifle it is inserted into but if the chamber dimensions between the fired brass and the rifle in question chamber were at the extreme ends of the allowable tolerance then the headspace may be so far off that the firing pin may not detonate the primer as the case can move to far forward during firing.

I was a machinist for while,

If you have some machining skills - you'll fit right in.

Ken

 

[Mozella]

......... snip......
For those new at reloading the fewer processes that one has to master is an advantage before you become familiar with them all and as a newbie expecting sub 1/2" groups is fairyland unless by some chance you stumble on a load combination that's really good.

This certainly wasn't my experience. Achieving sub 1/2" groups in a short period of time is not "fairyland" at all. I believe it is well within the grasp of anyone with a half decent rifle if they're willing to put in a little effort.

I started reloading after already having some experience in shooting factory ammo, scanning and carefully measuring my 5 shot groups with inexpensive, but very effective, On Target software. I then imported the data into an Excel worksheet so that I could study the information in several ways. In other words, I wasn't some jake-leg measuring my groups with a carpenter's tape or a coin.

My reloading logs show that I made my 6th batch of reloaded ammo 6 days after I reloaded my very first round. Load test # 006 was a 25 round batch shot in 5-shot groups out of an inexpensive Howa 1500 .223 rifle. ALL five groups were sub 1/2 MOA at 100 yards.

The average MOA was .443. These results were achieved before I started neck turning, weight-sorting components, uniforming my primer pockets, and many of the other fiddly details associated with making high quality ammo. The powder charges for these groups were dispensed using a Hornady case activated dispenser on my inexpensive Hornady Lock N Load progressive press rather than being individually weighed. The dies were the cheapest available made by Lee. In other words, my 5 shot groups were averaging sub 1/2 MOA within a week of starting to reload while using basic techniques and relatively inexpensive equipment; available to anyone, especially beginners.

I continued experimenting with a dozen different bullets and a half a dozen different powders. I also started doing a better job preparing my brass and I began weighing individual charges on a sensitive scale, and I was continuously making incremental improvements in my reloading technique and reloading equipment. But I didn't spend a ton of money. I bought some better dies, a bullet comparator, I began measuring seating depth, and things like that. But I retained my Hornady progressive press.

After a year my best 250 rounds out of this particular rifle averaged a carefully measured MOA of .272 when shooting five-shot groups.

Sure it's possible to stumble on a good recipe, but it's much more satisfying if one does a little bit of homework, uses care when making ammo, and takes a little effort to carefully log, measure, organize the data. Naturally that data is most valuable if the reloader carefully studies it and (this is important) learns something from it. Scribbling notes in a spiral note book is not the best way to quickly improve one's results.

Reloading is not rocket surgery. Good instructions are easy to find. Of course making ammo which shoots significantly better than 1/2 MOA much of the time requires more care and a bit more equipment, but the hints and tips to do this are published everywhere.

Mysteries still exist for me and I'm far from a reloading expert. I continue to work hard at improving my reloading knowledge and technique, within reason and within my budget. I still use a cheap Gem Pro 250 scale and I do NOT weight-sort my primers, for example.

I would argue that it doesn't necessarily take years and years of reloading to achieve good results if one approaches our sport with a good plan in mind.

 

[spclark]

...load it with 2 1/2 lbs of stainless steel pins and tumble 20 or so cases at a time using Dawn or other good dish soap and a tsp of Lemi-Shine. 60 to 90 minutes will do fine.

You meant to key in 200 cases, didn't you??

20's a pretty small batch if you shoot a lot; I routinely run 100 - 200 .308's in my Thumler's B (90 minutes) w/no issues.

 

[Texas10]

No mistake, it is a cheap, small batch tumbler ideal for a guy just starting out. Learning how much to tumble so as not to beat the snot out of the brass is kinda important, IMOP.

 

[fguffey]

From what I have been reading so far in the forum is that most guys are resizing anywhere from 2.000-2.005. What am I doing wrong? Any help I would appreciate.

You are using the wrong standard. Colors are not measures with a ruler and when you are measuring the length of a case you should be measuring from the datum/shoulder to the case head not from the end of the neck to the case head. And then there is moving the shoulder back? If you should stumble across how they do it pleased explain it to me.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

...load it with 2 1/2 lbs of stainless steel pins and tumble 20 or so cases at a time using Dawn or other good dish soap and a tsp of Lemi-Shine. 60 to 90 minutes will do fine.

I have one tumbler that has a 45 pound capacity. It holds 1,000 30/06 cases, and then there are the other tumblers, I will not start one of them up unless I have 100 cases in them.

F. Guffey

 

[Richard Coody]

You are using the wrong standard. Colors are not measures with a ruler and when you are measuring the length of a case you should be measuring from the datum/shoulder to the case head not from the end of the neck to the case head. And then there is moving the shoulder back? If you should stumble across how they do it pleased explain it to me.

F. Guffey

"moving the shoulder back"

guffey when you size a case does the dimension from datum/shoulder to case head change?

if so would you please enlighten us as to how you made that possible?

 

[Eddie Harren]

"if so would you please enlighten us as to how you made that possible?"

The sound of silence is refreshing. But I'm sure a response is on the way.