Reloading issue with Remington .308 brass

[Quiksand]

Hi All,

I am completely new to reloading. I have some once fired Remington .308 brass and just purchased a RCBS Rock Chucker single stage. I got everything setup per instructions then measured my brass before (between 2.005-2.015), then sized the brass and it is consistently measuring between 2.015-2.017. Based upon the two reloading manuals (Nosler and Hornady) the cases max length should be at 2.015 and trimmed length at 2.005. From what I have been reading so far in the forum is that most guys are resizing anywhere from 2.000-2.005. What am I doing wrong? Any help I would appreciate.

 

[RCC1]

I assume you are full length resizing?

If so the brass grows when FL resized. It has to be trimmed to correct length.

 

[terraMODA]

You may need to bump the shoulder back a little more. Screw your resizing die in a quarter turn at a time and remeasure. I use a Hornady lock and load case comparator to measure shoulder bump at the datum line. (Mid shoulder) you want to bump it back .002 for bolt guns and .003 to .005 for semi-autos. Get a case guage and plunk em in there to make sure. This will increase brass life since you keep stretch down to a mimimum. If you trim them without bumping the shoulder back properly you will thin and weaken your brass out prematurely.

 

[Lapua40X]

There's more to resizing brass than the SAAMI specs. SAAMI specs. may or may not apply to your rifle. Is it an "off the shelf" rifle or a custom with a unique chamber. How much shoulder set back do you show using a head space gauge? Make sure you know all the details with respect to contributing factors before you make your decisions on what needs to be done; if anything.

 

[Quiksand]

The rifle is currently "off the shelf". I have just learned a lot from everything you all have said... I am not sure the throat length of the rifle at the moment, which is something I have considered but have not yet checked. Considering the head space gauge... I am in the process of buying one now. Anymore information that you can think of is greatly appreciated!

 

[243Lapua]

Your doing things right. Once fired brass should be FL sized especially if it was fired from a different rifle. FL sizing will make your brass stretch, so your next step would be to trim to correct length. You can also buy a neck die which will only resize your neck, but only use it on the brass fired from your rifle. Look into Redding type S dies with bushing for future preference. Read Read and study reloading book. There is alot of info out there. So on and so forth welcome to the world of reloading

 

[T-shooter]

I resize my cases to 2.005". You should check a few each time you fire. Depending upon different factors, it may not grow in length, or maybe just a couple thousandths, or I have seen as much as .010". I think that .001" setback on the shoulders is plenty. You may have to adjust your die for different brass. Some harder brass may spring back and not change as much. As a guide, take several pieces of brass fired in your rifle, measure them, and if they will rechamber easily, reduce that measurement by .001" and check often. The less you work (stretch and compress) the brass, the better. A good tool to use is Hornady's. I also use it to set the length of my loaded rounds after measuring the chamber and making a dummy round.

 

[ireload2]

It does not appear that you are doing anything wrong. If you can set your FL die so it pushes the shoulder of the fired cases back .001 to .002 you should be ok. The length of the case will grow a little (and it is not totally predictable) when you FL resize a case. If your brass gets too long trim it. But you only trim it after it is FL resized. Resizing is not a case length controlling process so "resizing" is not really related to the case length of 2.000 to 2.005. True the length is some what affected by FL resizing but you control the length with the trimmer and only after FL resizing.

PS the Hornady case comparator is less than worthless for direct measurement. It will never give you the exact SAAMI number unless you set it to length with a gunsmith chamber headspace gage. So don't rely on the gage for any number unless you have a reference to compare it to or a gage to set it with. It is a good tool when you change your die setting and you want to know the head to shoulder distance change from one die setting to the next.

Since you are new to this you need to shop for solid opinions from really knowledgeable handloaders. When you have no experience everyone else has more experience than you. Some of the most well intentioned and yet misguided people are those who have about 15 minutes more experience than you. They already think they have mastered reloading when they can barely find the light switch in the reloading bathroom. So they will offer you a lot of almost right but really wrong information.
There are also people that have been reloading 40 years and know nothing because we shoot rifles and they have been reloading only shotguns or handguns.
Then there is the one rifle and one caliber guy who knows it all because he has been reloading one old rifle for 50 years.
I even know one bozo who argues about the manufacturers instructions for loading tools yet he admits that he has never reloaded anything.
Then there was a guy who had all the tools but reloading seemed so complex that he could not get started because he did not grasp it all. He was looking for more information. He complained that there was not enough detail on the internet. He got really pissed off when I asked him how he thought we learned to reload 30 years before there was an internet.
Like the song says "You gotta put your back into it'.

Hi All,

I am completely new to reloading. I have some once fired Remington .308 brass and just purchased a RCBS Rock Chucker single stage. I got everything setup per instructions then measured my brass before (between 2.005-2.015), then sized the brass and it is consistently measuring between 2.015-2.017. Based upon the two reloading manuals (Nosler and Hornady) the cases max length should be at 2.015 and trimmed length at 2.005. From what I have been reading so far in the forum is that most guys are resizing anywhere from 2.000-2.005. What am I doing wrong? Any help I would appreciate.

 

[Shynloco]

Your doing things right. Once fired brass should be FL sized especially if it was fired from a different rifle. FL sizing will make your brass stretch, so your next step would be to trim to correct length. You can also buy a neck die which will only resize your neck, but only use it on the brass fired from your rifle. Look into Redding type S dies with bushing for future preference. Read Read and study reloading book. There is alot of info out there. So on and so forth welcome to the world of reloading

Pay close attention to the words that 243Lapua just wrote. You absolutely need to FL resize any brass that has been fired in another rifle. EACH and EVERY RIFLE is unique when it comes to their chambers. The reason for FL resizing is to get to the same starting point with each piece of brass and most commercially made Dies return to accepted SAMMI specs and will accommodate just about any "across the counter rifle" in a given caliber. The are many ways to measure the shoulder angle and some were previously pointed out. If you are NOT reloading for acute competition loads, a simple CASE GAUGE will work in that you simply slide the RESIZED casing into the short Case Gauge and so long as the head of the casing sits flat will NO protrusion, the shoulder angle is good. But you need to trim all the casings to the same length, preferably to 2.005 when resizing and trimming a .308 casing. In the past, I have conducted extensive comparisons of .308 brass and that included comparing Lapua Brass to Lake City National Match and LC Match as well as the standard LC brass. And that was all shot out of a custom chamber .308BR rifle. Most of it was using "Once fired" brass and the lengths were all over the place after resizing. I (by the way) was using an RCBS Rockchucker for the resizing. But the key to putting together good loads, is simply knowing or learning your PARTICULAR rifle and what SHE likes. And that includes setting up your die to bump the shoulders ONLY to the point where the bolt closes with a SLIGHT resistance. That's because you want your casings to be TIGHT and not SLOOPY LOOSE in the chamber when closing the bolt. Makes for a better "sealing" to the wall of the chamber and a more even release (centered in the chamber) of the bullet when fired. SO keep at it and learn that new baby. After all, SHE will tell you more than any post you may read on any blog. The challenge is learning what she is telling you and the method by which you can get to that point of best accuracy.

Alex

 

[jr600yd]

The guys have given you good advice. Check around on the forum maybe an experienced Reloader is close to you. A mentor can be worth a thousand posts.

 

[Texas10]

The Hornaday Headspace comparator gage set as well as the OAL gage set and a digital caliper, along with a good trimmer ( I use the WFT from Little Crow Gun Works) should be on your short list of tools to acquire. Anything less and you're just guessing what your dies are doing. Once you have these, measure a fully fire formed case from YOUR guns chamber and record those dimensions in your loading note book. Then set your dies to bump the shoulder back just enough (about .002) to chamber reliably. THEN measure the length and trim as necessary.
The very last thing you want to experience on the firing line is a too long cartridge case with a stout load and have it pinch the bullet in the throat as you pull the trigger. Besides possibly blowing your gun to bits, you risk doing some serious damage to yourself and fellow shooters.

For really good looking brass on a budget, buy a rock tumbler from Harbor Freight and load it with 2 1/2 lbs of stainless steel pins and tumble 20 or so cases at a time using Dawn or other good dish soap and a tsp of Lemi-Shine. 60 to 90 minutes will do fine.

 

[T-shooter]

The Hornady tools are good for comparison purposes. If you make a dummy round just touching the lands in your chamber, you can compare other rounds to it reasonably close. The inside bore on my bullet insert is .298". The case insert is .400" as close as I can tell with calipers. Don't use your measurements from the tool to compare to SAMMI specs or even someone else's tools. One of my friends has the exact same tools for a .223 and they measure a bit different from mine. Here is one of the reasons. To measure the case length, it's from the base to a spot that is exactly .400" diameter on the shoulder. Even though the bore in Hornady's case insert may be the same, there is a chamfer on it. There is no good way to measure exactly where that chamfer ends. On the drawing below, the chamfer allows the case to set deeper so you cannot measure from the rear surface and compare to SAMMI specs. Here it would show the case shoulder to base a little shorter.

 

[jdj71]

read all above posts twice they are all correct and informative.Read last paragraph @ireload2 what he says its true get good bulls**t filter. Not all advice is good.I recommend Glen Zediker's book "handloading for competition" it will help your learning curve. I've been loading for 30 yrs. and learned a lot from this forum.Welcome to club. JD

 

[terraMODA]

I just went through this the other day resizing 308 win. My brass grew to 2.014 ish after resize which warrants a trim to me. I then checked headspace with comparator and saw that it had grown as well? After screwing my die in a bit and rechecking, headspace and case length had shrunk to acceptable ammounts. (2.008 CL .002 bump) Which didn't, in my opinion, warrant a trim. In my experience, bumping the shoulder back consistently, i.o.w. setting up your sizing die properly, has helped mitigate case length stretching, not completely, but reduces the amount I need to trim.

 

[Ron Blain]

T-Shooter, your post #12 has one of the best images I have seen for explaining why the Hornady LNL case gauge while great for noting a difference does not necessarily provide a true accurate dimension. Really good image.

Ron

 

[kvd]

Hi All,

I am completely new to reloading. I have some once fired Remington .308 brass and just purchased a RCBS Rock Chucker single stage. I got everything setup per instructions then measured my brass before (between 2.005-2.015), then sized the brass and it is consistently measuring between 2.015-2.017. Based upon the two reloading manuals (Nosler and Hornady) the cases max length should be at 2.015 and trimmed length at 2.005. From what I have been reading so far in the forum is that most guys are resizing anywhere from 2.000-2.005. What am I doing wrong? Any help I would appreciate.

Hi Quiksand,

Welcome to the forum - you've come to the right place. Hang around here for any length of time and you will be reloading top notch ammo very soon.

It may seem like a daunting task if one is new to the game but stripping your bolt if you are using a bolt action rifle will allow you to gather some useful information about your chamber, and where to adjust your seating die. Remington actions and the vast amount of custom clone actions use this tool:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...in-removal-tool-for-remingtons-prod35019.aspx

With your firing pin and ejector removed from the bolt you can proceed to test if your resized cases will fit your rifle chamber and allow the stripped bolt to close on the case. As mentioned, chambers tend to be slightly different and one of the benefits of reloading is that you can custom match the cartridge case to the chamber of your rifle. Resize just enough to allow the bolt to close without undo force. Measure the shoulder datum to base length of this case and resize all the rest to this dimension.

You can also find the distance to the lands with a stripped bolt which will enable you the adjust bullet seating depth for optimized accuracy when the time comes. Check out these excellent videos from forum member Alex Wheeler:

Hope this will be of benefit.

Ken

 

[Homerange]

Pay close attention to the words that 243Lapua just wrote. You absolutely need to FL resize any brass that has been fired in another rifle.

This ^ I don't subscribe to.
If I collect once fired range brass and it fits my chamber without issue I neck size it, case prep it and reload it. The first firing will form it to my chamber just as if it was FL sized and you'll likely get ~5 reloads before there is a need to bump the shoulders back. With say 50 brass that's a lot of loading for a newbie by which time you've learnt the basics and can proceed onto more advanced techniques.

For those new at reloading the fewer processes that one has to master is an advantage before you become familiar with them all and as a newbie expecting sub 1/2" groups is fairyland unless by some chance you stumble on a load combination that's really good.

 

[T-shooter]

T-Shooter, your post #12 has one of the best images I have seen for explaining why the Hornady LNL case gauge while great for noting a difference does not necessarily provide a true accurate dimension. Really good image.

Ron

Thanks. I can draw well, just can't shoot!

 

[Paul Seaman]

One of the finest articles on .308 is on the main page of Accurate Shooter site and gives history and reloading data and dimensions and many other pieces of the puzzle, a fantastic read that landed me here as a frequent reader of others problems and fixes. I am primarily loading .308 so I am in your same box so to speak. There is a book written by the owner of Applied Ballistics that is a good read if you get the chance I learned much more than I can describe, also their ammo is top shelf in Lapua cases! My .02 worth hope it helps!

 

[Shynloco]

This ^ I don't subscribe to....

For those new at reloading the fewer processes that one has to master is an advantage before you become familiar with them all and as a newbie expecting sub 1/2" groups is fairyland unless by some chance you stumble on a load combination that's really good.

Respectfully.......Gotta love some of the BS suggestions you see posted when you try and teach a newbie the proper ways to resize and reload ammo. Clearly this poster has little experience in rifle chambers (custom or across the counter) and trying to load/shoot accurate load. If FL resizing OVERLOADS the mind of a new reloader or creates more unnecessary work or steps, then pigs must fly as well. Any introductory Reloading Book or manual (plus advanced Reloading Books written by some of the top world wide competitors) I've ever read in the last 50+ years clearly is written for new reloaders and instructs to FL resize all brass and later moves into Neck resizing once that brass has been fireformed in your specific rifle. Sorry my friend, I strongly disagree with your post and dare say you are promoting a bad idea and poor techniques!

Alex