Reduced loads for 223 - using readily available pistol powders?

[AckleymanII]

12-13.5g of Blue Dot with the 40g is what I have used. Work up loads in .2g increments with 14.4 being a very high pressure load, tad over max.

14.2g is 3200 fps in my 26", 14T Hart with zero freebore shooting 1 .1/4" groups at 200 yards, plenty.

WARNING: most Flake powders will Bridge in the powder measure leading to a heavy charge, then a light charge. When Loading Blue Dot and other large flake powders like Unique, I weigh every powder charge when thrown with a Redding or RCBS uniflow powder measure.

Harrell's powder measure and Lyman powder measures due to design, maybe different.

If you Double charge a pistol powder, you may ruin a Remington 700 or Win model 70 and blow up some of the other actions that are not as strong, so be careful!

 

[wkndwarrior]

wkndwarrior,​

I'll give this another try, what powders do you have?
It looks like you are trying to drop about a third of the velocity, why?
Bolt action or semiautomatic?
At 2000 fps I'm not sure a pistol powder is what you want. Yes the velocity will be there but the pressure could peak fast and higher than you think.
I've seen a .223 loaded to low .221 Fireball velocity. With AA1680 the sound signature with a 7 inch barrel and a Varminter II can was missing the sharp crack and muzzle blast. I wouldn't use 296, H110 or Lillgun. IMR 4198 or IMR 4227 could be dirty at lighter weight. But may give you what you want. AA 5744 maybe a bit high in pressure (fast burning) but could work if you have some. Triple duce load data might be worth a look too.
Use this at your own risk, what works for me may not be safe in your firearm.

Paul

Paul,

I appreciate this info. I'm trying to load down a little for close range fox, mostly because I really want to hunt with my 223 Henry Long Ranger and hand loads versus my 22 mag, and because I'd like to keep the fur.

I've basically been checking my three local honey holes for powder each time someone makes a different recommendation, I've never loaded pistol and most of these are pistol with the exception of H4198 which seems unobtainable right now. Most of the powders from the old articles are also discontinued. Unfortunately I also do not have any of the rifle powders you had recommended. I was really hoping that someone would suggest a load with CFE Pistol powder since it seems to be the most available around me.

As an update though, I did call every reloader that I know and although he doesn't agree with my purposes - one of them has agreed to give me some old red dot. Since I have some of the calhoun 42gr double HP bullets I'm going to try his load data and then also load up some 50gr jacketed hollow points that I have too see what the rifle likes best.

I appreciate all of the information in this thread, I wouldn't have considered pressure spiking or differences with cast loads because it wasn't referenced in some of the old articles. If I can coordinate getting the powder tonight, I'll get loaded for the range tomorrow and report back. Goal is to be out hunting on Monday night. The next challenge will be learning how to skin a fox.

Dustin

 

[Paul's Black Rifles]

Dustin,
Way back a few years ago I remember an article about using pistol powder in reduced rifle loads. The author fired reduced loads into a swimming pool and recovered the bullets intact. He was surprised to find that the bullets showed skid marks on them. His conclusion was that the fast burning powder spiked the pressure so fast the bullets didn't engage the rifling until they were down the barrel a ways and slowed down some.

Not saying it will happen to you or that it will affect accuracy! Just letting you know what the author's thoughts were so you can come to your own conclusion.
I asked about if you are using a bolt action or semi auto, a semi auto will likely be a manual repeater. Unless you get fancy with the buffer of an AR.

I figured you were interested in keeping the fur from your fox harvest.

Paul

 

[snert]

Fellow reloaders,

I'm looking for a good load for 223 for fox hunting. I have some 42 grain calhoun double hp bullets that I would like to try but I can't seem to find any of the referenced powders or any that I find in other articles - blue dot, unique, red dot, etc. Does anyone have experience with a reduced 223 load in a readily available pistol powder? Here's the article that I am referring to: http://www.jamescalhoon.com/tobee2.php

TIA

Yes. I shot 4 grains unique in a 222 with a 40 or 45 grain hornet Sierra bullet. Great tree squirrel round.

I ran a light load of 4227 in a Swift for 150 yard hornet velocities. and 5 grains unique (covered with Puff-lon) and a 40 grain hornet bullet for tree squirrels. All shot well (I use fired and only neck sized cases) and some were one holers at 50 yards.

I would do the Blue Dot for your application.

 

[wkndwarrior]

Here's a range report to share from the red dot loads. Load data is on the pictures and of course is for reference only. I generally keep pictures like this in my spreadsheets to help develop loads.

A couple of notes:
- It was cold and windy! Extremely windy. I normally wouldn't have been out shooting in this wind if I didn't want this data. So I was actually surprised with the accuracy results. I'd also share that I don't consider myself a regular sniper or anything and I generally don't produce 'on hole groups' with any of my rifles.
- I'll share this as a disclaimer to the data, and please don't roast me - I had this brass as 'ready to load' from when I just started reloading/sizing around a year ago. I realized that it wasn't sized properly while loading the batch of hollow points because the neck tension was extremely loose. I still loaded the 8 groups with loose tension. I ran the brass for the 42 gr double hollow points back through a die and got much better results. I think this is the accuracy/difference in SD's between the two different bullets.
- I also had my 22 mag at the range and shot some CCI Maxi Max 30 GR 2200 FPS bullets. This rifle typically groups extremely well but was clearly more easily affected by the wind. When I look at the data, the 22Mag bullets had a muzzle velocity of 2071 FPS which reduced to around 1590 by 50 yards. A comparable muzzle velocity from the 223 was still at 1860 FPS at 50 yards with either bullet. The 22 mag factory ammunition had a std deviation of 16.
- I had a little cratering on the primers but nothing concerning, no signs of over pressure. It was definitely more 'dirty' but nothing unacceptable to me.
- This was really fun to shoot, the rounds were low noise and low recoil. The barrel didn't heat up. Typically I need to let this rifle cool after 10 rounds or so. I'll continue with load development on this basis, because that's what it's all about.
- Red dot is a PITA to measure. My chargemaster seemed to get 'stuck' trying to meter it because it seemed to come out in piles. It took much longer to load that typical rifle powders.

That said, I am going to load the 7gr of red dot over the 42gr double hp bullet for some fox hunting at 2179 FPS. The zero was right on with my typical 69gr hpbt's at 2900 FPS and accuracy was acceptable. Also, if anyone has trail boss, blue dot, or any more preferred powder local to central Pennsylvania and wants to make a trade let me know. I will, of course, share all load testing data.

Thanks for all of the input. I won't have time to get to the range again for a week or two at best but if anyone has suggestions I'm willing to take them!

 

[Hohn]

Found this thread via search and wanted to add that Alliant’s Sport Pistol worked well enough at a super light 4.5gr that I’m going to be revisiting the ultralight.223 thing with it. Also I have wanted to try BE-86 which is a very similar powder but slower burning.

The sport pistol burns clean at only 4.5gr and gets a 55gr SGK jsp all the way down a 26” CBI 7tw every time. Accuracy was meh but im sure will only improve as I work higher. I was only verifying reliable ignition and muzzle discharge.

Guessing SP will come in good around 7-8gr and BE-86 will need 10-12gr. 55gr and lighter only.

 

[Waydeo]

I'm interested in some .223 55 gr cast loads using BE -86 and trail boss loads.