Redding type S problems

[Andrev]

I have problems reloading for my 22-250 with Redding type S dies.
After resizing, there is a substantial amount of runout,3 - 7 thou)on the case neck. This causes bullet runout even though using a Forster micrometer bullet seater.
I have tried a different die, but with the same result.
My chamber seems to be somewhat oversized. The case measures 0.258 after firing. Case necks are turned to .0135 thou. I use a 0.249 bushing. This gives me a loaded round measurement of 0.251. The die is set up according to instructions and I tried it with and without a floating expanding button.
I stopped using the type S and get very good results as far as runout is concerned with Lee collet dies.,0 - 2 thou runout)
I would however like to use the Reddings for the better control.
Any thoughts?

Andre

 

[fdshuster]

Andre: Your post caught my eye: The Redding FL Type S neck bushing sizer and Forster Micrometer seater are the only kind I buy & use now. When I have run-out problems, using both the RCBS & Sinclair indicators), it is usually traceable to the quality, or lack thereof, the brass. But that would not explain the good results when using the Lee. Some thoughts:,1) What type loading press are you using?,2) What brand/headstamp brass?,3) Since you are outside neck turning,, some of us question the value of doing that for a factory chamber ex: your .259" chamber neck) how are you neck expanding,mandrel?) before turning?,4) Is the neck true after firing?,5) If you have the conventional FL sizing die, without the bushing capability), have you sized and checked for runout after using that die?,6) Is the runout "happening" after outside turning? As you can see, there are a lot of questions/ possible trouble spots, and the list could go on and on. Feel free to send a PM. Have patience: the problem can & will be solved.

 

[janderson0]

It might be that you are running a neck almost .010 larger into the neck bushing. I think the bevel into the bushing is too small to guide a neck this large.

Would think unturned necks would be better, and a larger bushing could be used.

Jim

 

[treeman]

just another thought on the subject. bushings are not always the size they say they are.
treeman

 

[fdshuster]

janderson0: there's another possibility I hadn't thought of: squeezing the neck down from .258" to .249" in one pass. Might require a .253" bushing followed by the .249". Most of my necks are tight, no-turn and they are only being reduced .003"/.004" in one pass. Excellent point. treeman: yes, I agree. Redding bushings do have a reputation of actual size not being what is "advertised" on the ident stamping. I've verified the actual sized diameters on all mine, and they may vary, but never more than .001" larger: don't know if that could cause his degree of runout. I think this problem could be solved by taking it one step at a time: Take a coincintricity reading after each step is performed, beginning with immediately after firing. Process of elimination.

 

[GermanS1]

It's been my experience with bushing dies that you should avoid sizing more than 0.004" at a time - any more and go to multiple bushings. Of course, this assumes that the necks themselves are uniform, but if so, then multiple passes really seems to help concentricity.

 

[alf]

Andre,

You might wanna start looking into annealing soon.

Your brass won't take that much movement for long w/o splitting.

Al

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

It's been my experience with bushing dies that you should avoid sizing more than 0.004" at a time - any more and go to multiple bushings. Of course, this assumes that the necks themselves are uniform, but if so, then multiple passes really seems to help concentricity.

Yep, I have seen this before as well.

 

[fieldratsniper]

yeah, what brass are you using?

i use a standard redding neck die set and i will be going to a type s soon and i measured some of my loaded rounds and they were all .250" to .2505", so i decided to go with a .248" bushing.

i use winchester brass and i dont neck turn because i've got a factory chamber and i didnt want to over work my brass,just started annealing).

I'm just very surprised to see that you have a loaded neck size of .001" more than i've got even though you turn your brass....kinda weird...

 

[Andrev]

First of all: I am pleasantly surprized with the excellent response and answers.
,1) What type loading press are you using?[RCBS RC4],2) What brand/headstamp brass?[Winchester. Neck thikness - 13,5 to 14 thou],3) Since you are outside neck turning,, some of us question the value of doing that for a factory chamber ex: your .259" chamber neck)The outside turning was done very sparingly, just to flatten the high spots. I think the new cases were slightly above 14 thou before turning. how are you neck expanding,mandrel?) before turning? [I ran them through a full length die when new],4) Is the neck true after firing?[Perfectly true],5) If you have the conventional FL sizing die, without the bushing capability), have you sized and checked for runout after using that die? Lee die, worked well but with some runout,1 to 3 thou, probly due to the expander plug pulling the case out of true),6) Is the runout "happening" after outside turning?

Cases were sorted by weight and neck thickness and the odds were discarded.
I now anneal every 2 firings.,cases 8 x fired)
I agree that there is not enough bevel on the bushings to make such a big jump.
The Lee collet dies squeezes the case neck onto a mandrel and actually gives very good results on such a big chamber.
One sometimes go the expensive route of buying the best equipment when the standard stuff seems to work better for normal chambers.

Regards, Andre

 

[fdshuster]

Andre: You are going about the problem in a very organized, systematic routine. You may be able to find the cause, or at least a major portion of it, by eliminating the probables, one step at a time. Perform a single operation, use the dial indicator runout gage, note findings, next step, etc. Use the same case, keep hand written notes, and you should,?) be able to discover the biggest trouble spot. I too have found that when working with a factory chamber, sometimes keeping it simple produces better results than using precision benchrest loading techniques and equipment-- sorta like "overkill", with no improvement in the finished product. There have been times when I am doing everthing humanly possible to eliminate R/O of the loaded round, and can still get .004" to .007", and that's when I write it off as defective brass. I'll mark that case, give it one more chance to straighten-out during firing, and if it does not, in the trash barrel it goes. For brass that is "borderline" .002" to .004", those rounds will be kept for basic sight-in, 100 yd. max. & "informal" use.

 

[Andrev]

Thanks Frank, I`ll do that.
After all my past struggles with various makes of dies, I now use the Lee collet dies as a standard reloading tool. All my current rifles are standard factory chambered. I am in the process of building a 6 XC and will then have the opportunity to shoot with a controlled sized chamber.
Has anyone experience with the collet dies as far as potential accuracy is concerned?

 

[Andrev]

After doing a search on this excellent forum, I found answers to most of my questions.
One remains however. Did anyone use the Lee collet dies and achieve any success in competitions?
The guys at Lee Precision does not seem to answer questions easily. Anyone know who to contact there?

Keep on shooting!
Andre