Redding T7, Forster Co-Ax, Dillon 550 650 F Class High Power Ammo?
- Thread starter Endyo
- Start date
Re: Redding T7 or Forster Co-Ax for F Class High Power Ammo?
How this thread has morphed. I look forward to your post Scott.
Scott, on the 550 I assume you are running true progressive? I envisioned loading one round at a time so the other cartridges wouldn't influence the toolhead, but that might be wrongful thinking.
I guess I'll have to get back onto Brianenos.com and reorder the stuff I returned. I'll also be visiting Whidden's webpage, and looking up David Tubb's book
How this thread has morphed. I look forward to your post Scott.
Scott, on the 550 I assume you are running true progressive? I envisioned loading one round at a time so the other cartridges wouldn't influence the toolhead, but that might be wrongful thinking.
I guess I'll have to get back onto Brianenos.com and reorder the stuff I returned. I'll also be visiting Whidden's webpage, and looking up David Tubb's book
Re: Redding T7 or Forster Co-Ax for F Class High Power Ammo?
Go to uniquetek for 550/650 toolheads and other accessories.
Dusty, Brand is still making Prometheus scales....with a healthy backlog
Yes, as a progressive: size, prime, mandrel, powder, bullet seatEndyo said:
Go to uniquetek for 550/650 toolheads and other accessories.
Dusty, Brand is still making Prometheus scales....with a healthy backlog
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Got contact info? His site is gone
I am using the same setup as Scott, and get the same results. I agree that clamping the toolhead and floating the dies is the key to concentricity on a 550. I also agree that the amount of time saved makes the prometheus worth the investment. I plan to continue to earn money as life goes on, but I've only got so much time.
I can't tell you how many people have told me that a 550 is not capable of producing match-grade ammo. Every round I shoot in competition is loaded on mine, and it hasn't held me back. Good ammo is good ammo, whether I load it on this or on a Co-Ax. Why spend more time to get the same results?
I can't tell you how many people have told me that a 550 is not capable of producing match-grade ammo. Every round I shoot in competition is loaded on mine, and it hasn't held me back. Good ammo is good ammo, whether I load it on this or on a Co-Ax. Why spend more time to get the same results?
Brand Cole, 425-239-9100Dusty Stevens said:
Thanks guys. Definitely made me a believer.
I was wondering if the floating die toolhead was the way to go.
Just got to keep working out the weak link in my method. For example I don't have a way to measure powder drop better than +/- 0.1gr ala the Chargemaster.
Someone pointed out on another thread there is likely a bigger difference in internal case volume if I'm not weight sorting brass. I am but have not measured internal volume with water to determine what variance my brass actually has.
I was wondering if the floating die toolhead was the way to go.
Just got to keep working out the weak link in my method. For example I don't have a way to measure powder drop better than +/- 0.1gr ala the Chargemaster.
Someone pointed out on another thread there is likely a bigger difference in internal case volume if I'm not weight sorting brass. I am but have not measured internal volume with water to determine what variance my brass actually has.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
If youre having trouble with a single stage you may want to wait on a dillon.
I load progressively on a Dillon 650.
I weigh my charges on a RCBs 750 and dump them through a funnel into my
Cases when the ram is up (open die spot)
I can load very quickly and I've shot 199s at 600 yards with my AR on that ammo.
I think progressive presses CAN produce very good ammo.
I'm going to get a Whidden tool head though as I'm starting to load 6.5 Creedmoor for 1000 yard stuff.
I weigh my charges on a RCBs 750 and dump them through a funnel into my
Cases when the ram is up (open die spot)
I can load very quickly and I've shot 199s at 600 yards with my AR on that ammo.
I think progressive presses CAN produce very good ammo.
I'm going to get a Whidden tool head though as I'm starting to load 6.5 Creedmoor for 1000 yard stuff.
I plan on calling Uniquetek or Whidden today. Someone mentioned going through Uniquetek. They will set up the toolhead for you.
What I'm curious about is if the proprietary lock rings cause the floating of the dies or if the toolhead itself causes the float.
The toolhead looks identical to the normal "clamp on" they sell for less. I imagine it's the lock rings - that would make more sense anyways.
I'm thinking only one toolhead and few extra lock rings is all that is necessary for a caliber changeover. Swapping a few dies would be almost as fast as than swapping out a clamp on toolhead. There is no case activated powder measure to mess with.
What I'm curious about is if the proprietary lock rings cause the floating of the dies or if the toolhead itself causes the float.
The toolhead looks identical to the normal "clamp on" they sell for less. I imagine it's the lock rings - that would make more sense anyways.
I'm thinking only one toolhead and few extra lock rings is all that is necessary for a caliber changeover. Swapping a few dies would be almost as fast as than swapping out a clamp on toolhead. There is no case activated powder measure to mess with.
Endyo said:
You want to get the floating die toolhead and clamping kit. Clamping the toolhead prevents it from twisting under the uneven forces acting upon it from the sizer and seater dies (this causes concentricity problems), while the floated dies allow each case to self align in the die at each of those stations(this helps concentricity). I'd strongly recommend getting a toolhead set up for each of the calibers you plan to reload for. You can swap out the dies on the head each time, but you will have to readjust them every time if you go that route.
Re: Redding T7 or Forster Co-Ax for F Class High Power Ammo?
How many of them had actually tried?
It seems to be a commonly held view that any kind of progressive is not capable of match grade ammo. I set out to prove otherwise on a 1050. The real beauty isn't the 200 rounds per hour at +/- 0.02 grains (or 300 at +/- 0.04 grains), it's the 1,000 cases per hour fully prepped (including trimming). There's a real drawback though - if you enjoy reloading you're out of luck, because your season's ammo is made in a couple of afternoons, so you'll need some other reasons to spend quality time in the gun room.
..
Endyo said:
How many of them had actually tried?
It seems to be a commonly held view that any kind of progressive is not capable of match grade ammo. I set out to prove otherwise on a 1050. The real beauty isn't the 200 rounds per hour at +/- 0.02 grains (or 300 at +/- 0.04 grains), it's the 1,000 cases per hour fully prepped (including trimming). There's a real drawback though - if you enjoy reloading you're out of luck, because your season's ammo is made in a couple of afternoons, so you'll need some other reasons to spend quality time in the gun room.
..
Re: Redding T7 or Forster Co-Ax for F Class High Power Ammo?
With this setup, all the sized cases have zero runout. About half the seated bullets have zero runout and the other half have .001....best I've achieved on any press.
I think Tubb was skipping stations so he can feel the bullet seating process. It's impossible to feel bullet seating when you are also sizing the case. While you can certainly do this for diagnostic purposes, I normally run the press as a progressive, using all stations at the same time. An arbor press and the 21st century hydraulic pressure tool are better if measuring seating pressure consistency is your goal.
Monte, all four stations are floated and used simultaneously as shown in the picture. With the Uniquetek toolhead, there is no need to skip stations. Note I did have to modify the toolhead....only 2 of the 4 stations are floated as it comes delivered. You can also see that the die lock rings are very close together... had to turn/grind down the die lock rings to a smaller diameter to prevent them from bumping into each other. Also, I used a dremel to cut slots into the lock rings where the roll pins go....found this easier than drilling holes in the lock ring.memilanuk said:
With this setup, all the sized cases have zero runout. About half the seated bullets have zero runout and the other half have .001....best I've achieved on any press.
I think Tubb was skipping stations so he can feel the bullet seating process. It's impossible to feel bullet seating when you are also sizing the case. While you can certainly do this for diagnostic purposes, I normally run the press as a progressive, using all stations at the same time. An arbor press and the 21st century hydraulic pressure tool are better if measuring seating pressure consistency is your goal.
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Hello Scott,
I think you're correct about the 'why' for skipping a station - as I understood it, the goal was to separate the more forceful operation(s) - sizing - from the more delicate ones - seating - but also I don't believe the Uniquetek tool-head clamping system was out when Tubb originally wrote his book. At least, I'm pretty sure it wasn't out when I first read his book, and it (the book) had been out for a while at that point. I think without the tool-head clamp, sizing would definitely affect seating, at least within the tolerances we're looking for.
I've got a setup basically like this (sans the Prometheus) for loading my tac/match ammo (6.5CM, .308 Win) but I've never taken it to the next level for my F-class match ammo - kind of chickened out
I know what you mean about there only being pins in the two stations... when I bought one of the early Whidden tool heads after tinkering with stock Dillon heads + UniqueTek, I mentioned that to them. I think John loads mostly on his 650, so he just assumed the original sizing and seating stations (1 & 3) were where the holes needed to be. I generally add one @ station #4, and move the sizer over there. I haven't taken the next step and tried putting a mandrel die in station #3 (looks like thats what you have in there?).
I'll be very interested in your write-up later. I don't have a Prometheus - I might have to start selling some 'clunkers' and socking the money away in a special fund :
In the mean time, I think I might try pre-weighing charges from my GD-503 into test tubes, so I can do a 'run' of loaded rounds. Figure its worth a try.
I think you're correct about the 'why' for skipping a station - as I understood it, the goal was to separate the more forceful operation(s) - sizing - from the more delicate ones - seating - but also I don't believe the Uniquetek tool-head clamping system was out when Tubb originally wrote his book. At least, I'm pretty sure it wasn't out when I first read his book, and it (the book) had been out for a while at that point. I think without the tool-head clamp, sizing would definitely affect seating, at least within the tolerances we're looking for.
I've got a setup basically like this (sans the Prometheus) for loading my tac/match ammo (6.5CM, .308 Win) but I've never taken it to the next level for my F-class match ammo - kind of chickened out
I know what you mean about there only being pins in the two stations... when I bought one of the early Whidden tool heads after tinkering with stock Dillon heads + UniqueTek, I mentioned that to them. I think John loads mostly on his 650, so he just assumed the original sizing and seating stations (1 & 3) were where the holes needed to be. I generally add one @ station #4, and move the sizer over there. I haven't taken the next step and tried putting a mandrel die in station #3 (looks like thats what you have in there?).
I'll be very interested in your write-up later. I don't have a Prometheus - I might have to start selling some 'clunkers' and socking the money away in a special fund :
In the mean time, I think I might try pre-weighing charges from my GD-503 into test tubes, so I can do a 'run' of loaded rounds. Figure its worth a try.
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