Redding competition shellholder

[fguffey]

Just to clarify. Are you saying that the thickest shell holder still bumped the shoulder back 0.005" from a fired case to bumped case?

If that was true the thickest shell holder or the shell holder with a deck height of .135" should prevent the reloader from shortening the case from the shoulder to the case head. I am the only reloaders that can increase the length of the case from the shoulder of the case to the case head from .001" to infinity. I do find increasing the length of the case .016" more practical than going to infinity.

And then there are short chambers, I do not know of a case manufacturer that sell cases for short chamber but sizing cases for short chambers had never been a problem for me. Because my shell holders have a deck height of .125" my cases are sized to minimum length. When I want to go to shorter than minimum length/full length sized I place a feeler gage between the deck of the shell holder and head of the case. With RCBS shell holders I can shorten the case .017" shorter than a go gage length chamber. I do all of that with out bumping and most of my work is done on a ROCK CHUCKER; I have 3 Rock Chuckers; not one of my Rock Chuckers cam over. I do have cam over presses, I also have instructions for adjusting dies to the shell holder; the instruction for adjusting a die to the shell holder a cam over press is different than adjusting a die to the shell holder in non-cam over press.

And then there was a time the cam over press was called a bump press; that was before the Internet.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Or, are you wanting to contact the shell holder for consistency? If so you would seem to need a shell holder that is 0.003" thicker. Or, you need to reduce headspace in your chamber by 0.003".

Beats me; I have no clue how a reloader sizes a case for his chamber when he does not know the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. Reminds me of Jimmy Dean talking about the chicken and the opossum. He asked why did the chicken cross the road and by all of the puzzled looks he got no one knew so he told them: The chicken crossed the road to show the opossum it could be done.

The OP is using a Hornady comparator he calls a head space gage, we all should know by now the Hornady tool is not a head space gage and the case does not have head space and then there is the conflict; The Hornady tool had a radius. The Hornady tool can be used as a comparator but we do not know how the tool compares to the Redding shell holders. Three of my Redding shell holders are off by .001" each. With a feeler gage I can get 10 readings from .000" to +.010", in money that is a $45.00 savings and I get the bonus of 5 additional sizes; plus I can size cases for short chambers because no one makes cases for short chambers.

F. Guffey

 

[M-61]

I'm confused reading these posts. Why can't you acheived the desired shoulder bump with a standard shell holder and "cam over" by adjusting the die? I've been doing this way for years with no problems.

P.S. I don't load any belted magnum.

K22...do not feel you are alone with the confusion.
You don't load belted magnums and in this case the OP 7Saum does not either. The thread conveniently jumped to belted magnums out of the blue.
The fact that it took until post #34 to find out the reason for 'bumping' (other than being fashionable) certainly did not help.

 

[Cool Tool]

Hi it was a brand new norma brass,and fired norma brass,used hornady comparator..
Thanx

Ok what I would like you to do is take your comparator an give me 3 measurements with brand new brass and the brass that is tight chambering I will give you some ideas what to do.

 

[7Saum]

Ok what I would like you to do is take your comparator an give me 3 measurements with brand new brass and the brass that is tight chambering I will give you some ideas what to do.

K,
Norma (new) - 1.603 datum to case head
Norma fire formed - 1.610 datum to case head.
Norma bumped shoulder with .010 shellholder - 1.605 datum to case head,hope that makes sense....
Thanx

 

[Patch700]

Any particular reason why you wouldn't just UNSCREW the die so it is not shoving the shoulder back??? Am i missing something here? Lol

 

[ireload2]

That is all you can do other than cut a few thou off of the barrel shoulder to make the chamber shorter.

Any particular reason why you wouldn't just UNSCREW the die so it is not shoving the shoulder back??? Am i missing something here? Lol

 

[dkhunt14]

QUOTE FROM Guffey
And then there is that part that is difficult to grasp, the case does not head space on the belt and case shoulder; I say difficult to understand because the shoulder can not move forward if the case head is pinned to the rear with the belt. SO? What happens when the case head is pinned to the rear and the shoulder moves forward and then someone needs to explain the sequence of events that takes place after the belt contacts the rear of the chamber.

F. Guffey[/QUOTE]If the case is being,held from going forward in the chamber by the belt, the belt is headspacing it. Every book that I ever read calls belted cases headspacing from the belt. Mr GUFFEY, you seem to be the only one that knows more then the companies that make and sell the stuff. Matt

 

[John Russell]

QUOTE FROM Guffey
And then there is that part that is difficult to grasp, the case does not head space on the belt and case shoulder; I say difficult to understand because the shoulder can not move forward if the case head is pinned to the rear with the belt. SO? What happens when the case head is pinned to the rear and the shoulder moves forward and then someone needs to explain the sequence of events that takes place after the belt contacts the rear of the chamber.

F. Guffey

If the case is being,held from going forward in the chamber by the belt, the belt is headspacing it. Every book that I ever read calls belted cases headspacing from the belt. Mr GUFFEY, you seem to be the only one that knows more then the companies that make and sell the stuff. Matt

Matt...

Mr. Guffey is on the speed dial of every gun and ammunition company and they call him for everything.

Same with SAAMI, they call Mr. Guffey before publishing ANYTHING !!!!

Just ask him, or read all of his past posts)

 

[fguffey]

F. Guffey

If the case is being,held from going forward in the chamber by the belt, the belt is headspacing it. Every book that I ever read calls belted cases headspacing from the belt. Mr GUFFEY, you seem to be the only one that knows more then the companies that make and sell the stuff. Matt

[/QUOTE]

dkhunt, I said there is something that happens when the trigger is puled that is impossible for reloaders to understand, I did not say they were not rude and or belligerent. I also 'suggested' they believe they can move the shoulder forward and I also ask; if the shoulder of the case moves forward what happens near the rear of the case' and what do I get? Answers? NO.

F. Guffey

 

[dedogs]

what do I get? Answers? NO.

And we get no apologies for your crytic posts.

 

[fguffey]

Any particular reason why you wouldn't just UNSCREW the die so it is not shoving the shoulder back??? Am i missing something here? Lol

Instead of laughing our loud you should explain to him how you move the shoulder back. I read about reloadrs moving the shoulder and I wonder and ask; "How do you do that?" And I have never read on this forum anyone determines what happens to the shoulder when the case is sized or fired; with one exception.

F. Guffey

 

[ireload2]

I know you love to make a big deal out of the shoulder, the neck and the case body being transformed from one to the other. You some how cannot call these transformations moving the shoulder. So why do you insist on the riddle speak? It seems that you are the one that is short on answers.


dkhunt, I said there is something that happens when the trigger is puled that is impossible for reloaders to understand, I did not say they were not rude and or belligerent. I also 'suggested' they believe they can move the shoulder forward and I also ask; if the shoulder of the case moves forward what happens near the rear of the case' and what do I get? Answers? NO.

F. Guffey[/QUOTE]

 

[Webster]

Beats me; I have no clue how a reloader sizes a case for his chamber when he does not know the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. Reminds me of Jimmy Dean talking about the chicken and the opossum. He asked why did the chicken cross the road and by all of the puzzled looks he got no one knew so he told them: The chicken crossed the road to show the opossum it could be done.

The OP is using a Hornady comparator he calls a head space gage, we all should know by now the Hornady tool is not a head space gage and the case does not have head space and then there is the conflict; The Hornady tool had a radius. The Hornady tool can be used as a comparator but we do not know how the tool compares to the Redding shell holders. Three of my Redding shell holders are off by .001" each. With a feeler gage I can get 10 readings from .000" to +.010", in money that is a $45.00 savings and I get the bonus of 5 additional sizes; plus I can size cases for short chambers because no one makes cases for short chambers.

F. Guffey

I have been reloading and shooting small groups for 45 years and I have never measured anything except OAL and neck thickness. Why do you perceive so many case problems. Tell us about what you do at the range and not the reloading bench. Range results are all that matters.

 

[Cool Tool]

K,
Norma (new) - 1.603 datum to case head
Norma fire formed - 1.610 datum to case head.
Norma bumped shoulder with .010 shellholder - 1.605 datum to case head,hope that makes sense....
Thanx

I would be more than glad to walk you through this issue you are having with this brass just private PM me I don't want to get in a pissing match with people I don't know anything about granted everyone has different ideas .

 

[RonAKA]

Norma (new) - 1.603 datum to case head
Norma fire formed - 1.610 datum to case head.
Norma bumped shoulder with .010 shellholder - 1.605 datum to case head,hope that makes sense....

I presume you would like to have a 1.608" datum to case head. If so just screw the die up 15 degrees from the contact point with the shell holder, and you will be 3 thou higher, and get 3 thou less bump.

 

[fguffey]

I have been reloading and shooting small groups for 45 years and I have never measured anything except OAL and neck thickness. Why do you perceive so many case problems. Tell us about what you do at the range and not the reloading bench. Range results are all that matters.

It was not my intension to confused you, most reloaders start out by saying they are so confused. I do not perceive 'so many problems' with the case. I am saying there are so many reloaders that have difficult understanding what happens between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel.

F. Guffey

 

[M-61]

It was not my intension to confused you, most reloaders start out by saying they are so confused. I do not perceive 'so many problems' with the case. I am saying there are so many reloaders that have difficult understanding what happens between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the barrel.

F. Guffey

I think the OP's question referred to the time prior to pulling the trigger. Namely reloading the case.

 

[fguffey]

Any particular reason why you wouldn't just UNSCREW the die so it is not shoving the shoulder back??? Am i missing something here? Lol

Webster, If you have no answer just say "I do not know", nothing bad will happen to you; again, not my intention to upset anyone but I can make a very good case reloaders are telling me they can move the shoulder back and again and again I ask; "How do you do that?". I have never read a response from a reloader that said; "I do not know" or "I just assume the shoulder moves when I size it"; and then there is firing, reloaders assume the shoulder moves when the case is fired. And I have said I find it difficult to move the shoulder. I understand you could be showing off with the thickness of the neck thing and OAL.

Again, it is not my intension to hurt your feelings but if you do not know simply say you do not know. It is written long before SAAMI there were smiths and reloaders that did not know and a few assumed meaning one said something about firing a case in a chamber with .075" clearance; meaning the case from the shoulder to the case head was shorter than the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. Long after that I fired a case that was shorter by .127" without case head separation and the shoulder did not move.

All of this could have something to do with your cases having head space, my cases do not have head space, I use the length of the chase from the shoulder to the case head to off set the length of the chamber and I understand that hurts your feelings or you find that insulting. I did have one heavy poster contact SAAMI, he told on me, I can only guess they were impressed with his long list if accomplishments in the shooting world but that did not changes their minds, the case does not have head space.

F. Guffey

 

[dmoran]