Redding competition shellholder

[fguffey]

and then when talking about the difference in length between the chamber and case the difference is called clearance and the case head is going to be against the bolt face, that makes it one of those therefore moments meaning the clearance is going to be between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber.

F. Guffey

 

[SheepDog]

Test a fired case in your gun with a bare bolt to see if it is actually hitting the shoulder. My bet is that, unless you are using over charges, it will cause no drag on the bolt closing. As long as that is true then there is no need to bump the shoulder back.

 

[7Saum]

Why cant you back the die off and start over with the new shell holders?

What I did was watch a video HOW TO SIZE A CASE AND SET HEADSPACE,by JEFF BRASOVITCH , on YOUTUBE, check it out and that may explain what I did..
Thanx

 

[M-61]

What was the reason to want to bump the shoulder? Bolt hard to close?
I missed it if you stated it.

 

[timeout]

It's not that complicated. I don't use competition shell holders. I use a standard shell holder. Measure a fired case. Ideally, bump the shoulder .001" less than the fired case. To do this back your die out so that it does not bump the shoulder at all. Put a mark on the die with a pencil or felt tip marker in order to know how much you are moving the die on each adjustment. I use Hornady locking rings on all my dies. They have flat sides and are much easier to loosen/tighten with a wrench when making your adjustments. Just keep adjusting die inward little by little, until you achieve the desired case bump measurement. This is not hard to do. If you don't have a way to measure properly, remove the firing pin and ejector from your bolt. Then bump little by little until you just feel an ever so slight drag when closing the bolt. Note: I did have a Redding die once that bottomed out against the shell holder before I could bump the shoulder. I had to remove something like .028" from the top of the shell holder to solve the issue. My chamber was set at about +.001" on the go gauge, so headspace was not the issue.

 

[pete1955]

Why cant you back the die off and start over with the new shell holders?

He can use a standard shell holder and a .014 feeler gauge or the +.010 competition shell holder and a .004 feeler gauge.

Or he can read F,Guffey's postings and stay in a state of confusion and go insane.

 

[pete1955]

And I am flattered, I see a member has cut and pasted my use of the feeler gage when adjusting the length of the case.

F. Guffey

I know one thing for sure F.Guffey, you didn't invent headspace or the feeler gauge.

But you do have diminishing headspace between your ears F.Guffey and thinking that if anyone picks up a feeler gauge it was your idea.

A competition shell holder allows the die to make hard contact with the die and remove any slop in the press. Meaning more uniform shoulder location after sizing and even less if you pause at the top of the ram stroke.

Starve a ego and feed a forum.

 

[K22]

I'm confused reading these posts. Why can't you acheived the desired shoulder bump with a standard shell holder and "cam over" by adjusting the die? I've been doing this way for years with no problems.

P.S. I don't load any belted magnum.

 

[Cool Tool]

Hi I recently purchased a set of competition shellholders to control the bumping of the shoulder,the thing is they recommend 1-2 thou for proper headspace,I measured a fired brass to unfired brass and it was 10 thou stretch,so I put the shellholder that would bump it the least and I still ended up with a 5thou difference....Any suggestions?
Thanx..

I have one question the unfired case you measured was it a brand new factory case an what did you use to measure these two cases that's what I would like to know first.

 

[M-61]

and then when talking about the difference in length between the chamber and case the difference is called clearance and the case head is going to be against the bolt face, that makes it one of those therefore moments meaning the clearance is going to be between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber.

F. Guffey

What is a "therefore moment"?
Is it measurable with an instrument? A tension gauge?

 

[pete1955]

I'm confused reading these posts. Why can't you acheived the desired shoulder bump with a standard shell holder and "cam over" by adjusting the die? I've been doing this way for years with no problems.

P.S. I don't load any belted magnum.

My RCBS Rockchucker press cams over with or without a die in the press. And this is just after it goes over top dead center and hits its mechanical stop.

Cam over with the die in the press and making hard contact with the shell holder means you feel the cam over and the "thump" as the press passes top dead center and hits the mechanical stop. (To me this is what most people mean by cam over)

So with the competition shell holders you make hard contact with the shell holder and have the satisfaction of feeling the "thump" all the time. Meaning no air gap between the shell holder and die.

When shoulder bump happens depends on your chambers headspace length and when the die contacts the case shoulder. And since we live in a plus and minus manufacturing world is the reason we move the die up and down............And thats the long and short of it.

(unless your name is F.Guffey and you invented headspace and feeler gauges)

 

[pete1955]

and then when talking about the difference in length between the chamber and case the difference is called clearance and the case head is going to be against the bolt face, that makes it one of those therefore moments meaning the clearance is going to be between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber.

F. Guffey

"BUT" F.Guffey what direction does the ejector and firing pin push the case in the chamber. And which end of the case has the "case head" separation. And what does head clearance mean?

SAAMI Glossary of terms

HEADSPACE
The distance from the face of the closed breech of a firearm to the surface in the chamber on which the cartridge case seats.

HEAD CLEARANCE
The distance between the head of a fully seated cartridge or shell and the face of the breech bolt when the action is in the closed position. Commonly confused with headspace.

Below the long and short of it. (sometimes call the F.Guffey nightmare)

 

[7Saum]

I have one question the unfired case you measured was it a brand new factory case an what did you use to measure these two cases that's what I would like to know first.

Hi it was a brand new norma brass,and fired norma brass,used hornady comparator..
Thanx

 

[7Saum]

What was the reason to want to bump the shoulder? Bolt hard to close?
I missed it if you stated it.

Yes,the bolt was hard to close,and I want to set my shoulder to my chamber -2 thou for consistency,accuracy..
Thanx

 

[John Russell]

What was the reason to want to bump the shoulder? Bolt hard to close?
I missed it if you stated it.

7SAUM...
M-61 asked it, and others asked it, and you never answered the principal question here.

Why the hell are you bumping the shoulder? Cuz you read it somewhere, or do you NEED to do it.

Bumping the shoulders not something that you need to do... it is something you do if you need it.

I have a feeling that you may not need to do it, and this is much to do about nothing.

 

[pete1955]

7SAUM...
M-61 asked it, and others asked it, and you never answered the principal question here.

Why the hell are you bumping the shoulder? Cuz you read it somewhere, or do you NEED to do it.

Bumping the shoulders not something that you need to do... it is something you do if you need it.

I have a feeling that you may not need to do it, and this is much to do about nothing.

Why did the chicken cross the road?

Because his reloading press and all his full length dies were on the other side.

And all this was on the right side of the road.

 

[dkhunt14]

I know one thing for sure F.Guffey, you didn't invent headspace or the feeler gauge.

But you do have diminishing headspace between your ears F.Guffey and thinking that if anyone picks up a feeler gauge it was your idea.

A competition shell holder allows the die to make hard contact with the die and remove any slop in the press. Meaning more uniform shoulder location after sizing and even less if you pause at the top of the ram stroke.

Starve a ego and feed a forum.

REMINDS ME OF BIGED51. Matt

 

[fguffey]

New
↑

What was the reason to want to bump the shoulder? Bolt hard to close?
I missed it if you stated it.
Click to expand...
Yes,the bolt was hard to close,and I want to set my shoulder to my chamber -2 thou for consistency, accuracy..

Belted Magnums: If you are using the Rddding #6 competition shell holder set you have a belted magnum chamber. If you have a belted magnum the belt on the case limits head space or case travel.

I have had belted magnmum cases expand ahead of the belt, I knew the cases had been hammered with heavy loads. All 20 cases from a box of cases were upset and could not be sized. I could have used a collet in a lathe but that would not have changed the fact the case heads and primer pockets were expanded. this happened to 40 cases out of 240.

And then there is that part that is difficult to grasp, the case does not head space on the belt and case shoulder; I say difficult to understand because the shoulder can not move forward if the case head is pinned to the rear with the belt. SO? What happens when the case head is pinned to the rear and the shoulder moves forward and then someone needs to explain the sequence of events that takes place after the belt contacts the rear of the chamber.

F. Guffey

 

[RonAKA]

Hi I recently purchased a set of competition shellholders to control the bumping of the shoulder,the thing is they recommend 1-2 thou for proper headspace,I measured a fired brass to unfired brass and it was 10 thou stretch,so I put the shellholder that would bump it the least and I still ended up with a 5thou difference....Any suggestions?
Thanx..

Just to clarify. Are you saying that the thickest shell holder still bumped the shoulder back 0.005" from a fired case to bumped case? Is this with the die screwed down so it contacts the shell holder? If you are bumping too much, why are you adjusting the die down so far?

Or, are you wanting to contact the shell holder for consistency? If so you would seem to need a shell holder that is 0.003" thicker. Or, you need to reduce headspace in your chamber by 0.003".

 

[dedogs]

Belted Magnums: If you are using the Rddding #6 competition shell holder set you have a belted magnum chamber.

The OP stated (twice) that he is re-sizing a 7MM SAUM (Short Action Ultra Mag). The SAUM series of cases DO NOT have a belt! They do however require the use of a #6 shell holder due to their rim diameter (.534). dedogs