Redding bushing smaller than what they really are?

[Thisguy65]

Example, Bushing says 0.336 and after sizing the brass the neck measures 0.335. This is without the expander/sizing button.

Not sure what exactly is going on here as this is my first time using a Redding Type S Bushing Neck FL sizing die.


At first I thought this was it trying to size down too much at once. I tired a brand new Lapua case that measured .337 loaded. Insert .335 bushing and neck reads .334 after sizing. I purchased a .339 just in case I had to do it in two steps.

Fired cases of Federal brass is .341. This is why I bought the .339 bushing.


I use lanolin and 99% alcohol for lube.




I'm more less starting to think something is wrong with:

1) my setup
2) The die.


Going down .002 in size should not funnel at all. And it does it with all bushings and brass.

Did a few of my brand new Lapua brass measured .337

1) used .336 bushing and ended with .335 neck

2) used .335 bushing and end with a .334 neck.


Took the bushing by machine shop and ran a gauge them. The gauge would only go in if I went one size down from what was stamped on the bushing.
Example .335 gauge would not past through a .335 bushing but a .334 gauge.

 

[CatShooter]

Example, Bushing says 0.336 and after sizing the brass the neck measures 0.335. This is without the expander/sizing button.

Not sure what exactly is going on here as this is my first time using a Redding Type S Bushing Neck FL sizing die.

At first I thought this was it trying to size down too much at once. I tired a brand new Lapua case that measured .337 loaded. Insert .335 bushing and neck reads .334 after sizing. I purchased a .339 just in case I had to do it in two steps.

Fired cases of Federal brass is .341. This is why I bought the .339 bushing.

I use lanolin and 99% alcohol for lube.

I'm more less starting to think something is wrong with:

1) my setup
2) The die.

Going down .002 in size should not funnel at all. And it does it with all bushings and brass.

Did a few of my brand new Lapua brass measured .337

1) used .336 bushing and ended with .335 neck

2) used .335 bushing and end with a .334 neck.

Took the bushing by machine shop and ran a gauge them. The gauge would only go in if I went one size down from what was stamped on the bushing.
Example .335 gauge would not past through a .335 bushing but a .334 gauge.

The bushing is not smaller than what they are marked. It is a problem when running a brass tube through a reducing orifice, adn the design of the bushings.

They mention it in a warning in their catalogue.

 

[Thisguy65]

Example, Bushing says 0.336 and after sizing the brass the neck measures 0.335. This is without the expander/sizing button.

Not sure what exactly is going on here as this is my first time using a Redding Type S Bushing Neck FL sizing die.

At first I thought this was it trying to size down too much at once. I tired a brand new Lapua case that measured .337 loaded. Insert .335 bushing and neck reads .334 after sizing. I purchased a .339 just in case I had to do it in two steps.

Fired cases of Federal brass is .341. This is why I bought the .339 bushing.

I use lanolin and 99% alcohol for lube.

I'm more less starting to think something is wrong with:

1) my setup
2) The die.

Going down .002 in size should not funnel at all. And it does it with all bushings and brass.

Did a few of my brand new Lapua brass measured .337

1) used .336 bushing and ended with .335 neck

2) used .335 bushing and end with a .334 neck.

Took the bushing by machine shop and ran a gauge them. The gauge would only go in if I went one size down from what was stamped on the bushing.
Example .335 gauge would not past through a .335 bushing but a .334 gauge.

The bushing is not smaller than what they are marked. It is a problem when running a brass tube through a reducing orifice, adn the design of the bushings.

They mention it in a warning in their catalogue.

The first paragraph I did do. Loaded round =0.337-.002=0.335

Lapua brass is thick so I would not see a considerably larger than my loaded rounds.

 

[dkhunt14]

It is hard to measure if using a caliper. You can easily be a .001 off. It really shouldn't matter if it's .001 smaller. I like more tension so bullets don't move. It has also proven to be more accurate in most of my guns. Matt

 

[Thisguy65]

It is hard to measure if using a caliper. You can easily be a .001 off. It really shouldn't matter if it's .001 smaller. I like more tension so bullets don't move. It has also proven to be more accurate in most of my guns. Matt

Very true it is hard to measure with caliper. I'm taking a OD mircometer home today. On my caliper I was using the thicker part of the legs and measuring just under the neck. My thinking for using he thicker part of the legs is surface area there to help keep the case straight.

 

[snakepit]

I was using a Redding .266 bushing which measured .266 and gave me .002 neck tension on a loaded .268 case in my 6BR and decided to order a .267 bushing to try .001 neck tension. I ordered a .267 bushing but the neck still measured .266. I called Redding and they sent me another .267 bushing which also measured .266. I then tried using a Sinclair Expander Mandrel after using either my .266 or .267 bushing (again both had measured .266) and ended up with the desired .267/.001 neck tension. The bushings were the Titanium Nitride surface treated Redding bushings. By the way, I never really noticed much difference in accuracy between the .001 and .002 neck tension.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Thisguy65

You may be missing the wood for the trees here. Keep in mind much of what we measure is to ensure consistency in our personal reloading processes, nothing more. Much more important than the absolute diameter of the neck, is how the loaded round performs on the range and whether or not you can load another round to the same recipe.

Regards

JCS

 

[jimbires]

read all of this , especially paragraph #7 . Jim


http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/140-bushing-selection

 

[Thisguy65]

read all of this , especially paragraph #7 . Jim


http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/140-bushing-selection

This is virgin brass and the once fired I resize in two steps. .342 to .338 to .335. <---- hate this process this most.

 

[Thisguy65]

Thisguy65

You may be missing the wood for the trees here. Keep in mind much of what we measure is to ensure consistency in our personal reloading processes, nothing more. Much more important than the absolute diameter of the neck, is how the loaded round performs on the range and whether or not you can load another round to the same recipe.

Regards

JCS

Thank you JCS, consistency is the name of the game. At times I have obsession, if you will, to understand why the things they are. Sounds silly, I know.

 

[Brians356]

read all of this , especially paragraph #7 . Jim
http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/140-bushing-selection

Bingo! It's right there in brown and white (as it were.)

There's another way to skin the cat - an inside out approach. Select a bushing using your dead reckoning based on loaded round diameter, etc. Size the neck. Measure the ID of the neck using a set of pin gages in an appropriate range of nearby sizes (class of gage tolerance chosen to suit you) to determine, within tolerance, what the actual ID of the neck is. Then choose a different bushing based on what you just measured.

Another way is to use trial and error: Size with a bushing which should leave the neck ID at bullet diameter. See if a bullet is a slip (not loose) fit in the neck. If it just fits, go down .001" or .002" or whatever. If the bullet will not enter the neck, it's likely to already be .001" or .002" smaller than the bullet. You could verify that by sizing a case with a .002" larger bushing. (Obviously a fair number of bushings, in increments, could be required for this exercise, and they ain't cheap.)

 

[Juma]

Lube the bushing.Unnecessary friction is the issue.

 

[bill123]

In all of the above suggestions are you guys using an expander / button? Whenever I Try to adj tension by changing bushings and I use an expander, the exp. ends up pushing the neck diam. out to the same size.

 

[CatShooter]

In all of the above suggestions are you guys using an expander / button? Whenever I Try to adj tension by changing bushings and I use an expander, the exp. ends up pushing the neck diam. out to the same size.

Well, of course - that is what expanders do. If you wawnt to use bushings to control the diameter of the neck, remove the expander.

Otherwise, you are doing nothing because the expander will return the neck to the same size every time.

.

 

[mikecr]

I then tried using a Sinclair Expander Mandrel after using either my .266 or .267 bushing (again both had measured .266) and ended up with the desired .267/.001 neck tension. The bushings were the Titanium Nitride surface treated Redding bushings. By the way, I never really noticed much difference in accuracy between the .001 and .002 neck tension.

Good move here.
The reason you didn't notice a difference between 1thou & 2thou interference fit, is because it makes no difference to actual tension(which is maxed by ~1thou worth of spring back force).

 

[bill123]

In all of the above suggestions are you guys using an expander / button? Whenever I Try to adj tension by changing bushings and I use an expander, the exp. ends up pushing the neck diam. out to the same size.

Well, of course - that is what expanders do. If you wawnt to use bushings to control the diameter of the neck, remove the expander.

Otherwise, you are doing nothing because the expander will return the neck to the same size every time.

.

That makes sense but I thought a small bushing used before an expander might give more spring back than a larger bushing.

 

[CatShooter]

In all of the above suggestions are you guys using an expander / button? Whenever I Try to adj tension by changing bushings and I use an expander, the exp. ends up pushing the neck diam. out to the same size.

Well, of course - that is what expanders do. If you wawnt to use bushings to control the diameter of the neck, remove the expander.

Otherwise, you are doing nothing because the expander will return the neck to the same size every time.

.

That makes sense but I thought a small bushing used before an expander might give more spring back than a larger bushing.

Sounds logical, but nope!

 

[Thisguy65]

I broke down and bought a OD mircometer and my calipers were reading the necks 0.001 smaller than what they really are. So really nothing was wrong (hits head again wall)

 

[hogan]

Takes a pin gauge set to be sure.

OD mic reads outside diameter. An ID mic is entirely different and the thimble moves the jaw outward rather than in.

Like gage blocks, pin gages are very expensive the larger they are.

If you own a lathe, you can make your own bushings. Just takes 1/2 steel rod stock. I buy 10" heat treated bolts an get about 8" of material which I part off to make custom bushings.

Need to be sure? Get the pin gage(s) or make your own.
Can also try Wilson bushings. Those guys have The Rep for finely crafted loading gear. Can rely on their bushings... Maybe call their tech support and ask if they measure true and how to they test them?

On other hand, they're cheap. Just try a few sizes until you get the results you want. Doesn't really matter what actual diameter is, just that it works for you...