red stag 7 rem mag

[DRAGO1]

Hi, i'm from italy, apologige for my english... i shot a red deer vith a 308 155 a-max ( muzzle vel 2890fps) at 295yards and i hit the chest, shocking lungs, but not the heart ! deer was heavy about 220lbs and it traveled about 150 yards far: this is absolutely no good for me. now season is closed but i think the next i'll hunt vith my 7 rem mag made by " concari " vith 26" barrel. i tested velocity vith 162-amax: 3020fps and 3050 vith 150nosler partition, i have also 60 rounds of pmc vith 160xlc barnes, but i heard that at long distance barnes may have problems in expanding...is true? i'm very confused, can anyone help me for the better choice? probably next year distance shot can reach 600 yards..
as soon as possible, i'll post pic of shot placement..

 

[FryeGuy]

congrats on the red deer. 220lbs sounds about like the size of a northern whitetail. I think a bullet than opens up medium game would be best. I think some of the partitions, accubonds, etc, in the bullet weight you speak of are for bigger game (like elk, bear, etc). I am not sure they would open up and do lots of damage before going out the other side. they are made for deep penetration in big bone, etc. I am sure some folks don't agree with me on that one. I have only killed a couple of big bucks that were 200+ lbs before field dressing, and sierra 150sbt & 165hpbt gamekings did the job fine for me. I have started shooting 155 berger vld hunting bullets in one of my 308's, but I have yet to harvest anything with one. below are some of the combo's I used elk hunting the last times I went:
cow-7mm-08 with a 150sbt gameking, clean pass thru, fell over within 30yds max (175yd shot)
cow-6.5-284 with a 140sbt gameking, same results (150yd shot)
6x6 bull, 257roberts, 117sbt gameking, shot it twice, watched it fall also, went less than 60yds (40yd shot, and a 70yd shot)
cow, .264 win mag, 120spt, 300yd shot, she fell after about 30yds.
now all of the animals were calm and standing, they didn't know we were around, or were not "spooked".

an elk cow is usually 300-400lbs and up, bulls even bigger. so that is why I like sierra gamekings. they would be perfect for what you are doing and save you some money.

 

[DRAGO1]

in effect my first deer was in 2009, an old cow about 250lbs shot vith 7rem 140sierra gameking about 3150fps at 80 yards, on ground vith snow...results: shot angled, bullets in chest, not passed trough, no visible blood on snow for 70/90 yard, than few bood and cow dead! i was hungry for this and next year i shot barnes...but it was an head shot at 80 yards, so no problem of tracking...and 1en days ago, the third deer that i have described. I want to say we can hunt deers from 2009, before i hunted many alpine chamois and roe deer vith 308 155-a max vithout any problem. also i tried to remove the tip from bullet (first times) but damage was excessive....
i know people that really hunt deer ( also bull) with 223 rem, with good result, but i think this is not the best..
but this gave me a new idea:what about changing bullet weight and shooting 120 grs ballistic tip or similar on 7 rem? thanks a lot

 

[MrMajestic]

FryeGuy is spot on. Like you I shoot the A-Max and while it is a very accurate, and great long range bullet, at closer ranges with higher velocities penetration can be inadequate. I shot a small pig at 128 yards with the 162 grain in 7mm and a Whitetail at 60 yards with a 168 grain .30 caliber and neither exited. Fortunately I was able to shoot behind the shoulder and both dropped immediately but shot placement appears even more critical due to their construction. There was a tremendous loss of meat due to the shock of the bullets which is lesser desirable for most. IMHO, and with limited experience using the A-Max, the Game King line of bullets appears to be a better choice for medium sized game at least at reduced ranges.

 

[ar15topgun]

My vote would be to go with the Barnes TTSX.

 

[DRAGO1]

jesus...i have never seen nothing of similar on my trophies, luckily! my wife and me love meat!!
seriously, i have 8 month to find a good solution, i also chrged 30 rounds(also 7 rem for my steyr) vith 162rws tig, 69grs of norma mrp that gave 3010 fps, but i haven't occasion to try on game, only on target.
in effects, ballistic calculator says that over 220meters, 155 a max on 308 perform better,has more energy, but on the field, i have to say that when a deer is hit by a 7 rem, the reaction is different respect 308....7rem is much better
vhy this?

 

[MrMajestic]

Drago, We would need the specifics of the loads to determine this however if I understand correctly it would be the Ballistic Coefficient of the bullet.

 

[DRAGO1]

rws tig 162grs, bc 0.325 v0 3010 fps

http://www.rws-munition.de/en/products/centerfire-rifle-cartridges/bullets/id-classic.html

 

[bozo699]

Drago1,
Welcome to the forum, your English is better then many who live here and post regularly so don't worry about that. I will take a beating for this but so be it, A_MAX bullets are for punching paper, NOT hunting bigger animals, will they kill bigger animals?....yes but so can a sling shot if your aim is correct. The only target quality/Hunting quality bullet I know of is a Berger hunting VLD, Nosler accubonds are quite accurate the Nosler ballistic tip will work good on deer sized animals but are no good on elk, you need a accurate hunting bullet my friend not a paper bullet. I don't want to here 500 of you jumping on me and telling me you have killed XXXXXX many animals with the A-Max like I said I can Kill a bull elephant with a 22 short if I hit him just right but it is not the caliber nor bullet of choice for it! The A-Max if always put in soft tissue would probably do fine but at 600 yards the wind may blow you into the shoulder bone, the A-Max will disintegrate, the Accubond or Partition or other good HUNTING bullets have a better chance of holding together and you have a better chance of recovering your animal! Best of luck to you.
Wayne.

 

[DRAGO1]

thanks a lot for your suggestions, as you have surely understood, my experience on deer is very poor, simply i use what i ever used on alpine chamois and roedeer, but i want improve my results, hunting in alps , distance often is a problem ( for european standard) and you can shoot 600 yards and over, but honestly my longer real shot on animal has been 412meters (450 yards) on roe deer; i was scared to try longer because i want a quick kill and i hate to see wounded animals, is sad!
dimensions of red deer are very different, chest is enormous and knowing distance and without wind (with wind i don't shoot, i'm not exercised enough) i could have necessity
to shoot until 600yards.you have to consider that with my winchester heawy warmint in 308 155 a-max 2890fps i shot without problems groups of 3" at 470yards and 7" at 800yards.
7 rem groups are 2" at 350 yards..so what the best choice in your opinion for shootingout 600yards? 308 or 7rem? bullets: parttion? barnes? sst hornady?berger? what weight? what velocity(i think the best i can obtain in safety..)
thanks a lot

 

[bozo699]

thanks a lot for your suggestions, as you have surely understood, my experience on deer is very poor, simply i use what i ever used on alpine chamois and roedeer, but i want improve my results, hunting in alps , distance often is a problem ( for european standard) and you can shoot 600 yards and over, but honestly my longer real shot on animal has been 412meters (450 yards) on roe deer; i was scared to try longer because i want a quick kill and i hate to see wounded animals, is sad!
dimensions of red deer are very different, chest is enormous and knowing distance and without wind (with wind i don't shoot, i'm not exercised enough) i could have necessity
to shoot until 600yards.you have to consider that with my winchester heawy warmint in 308 155 a-max 2890fps i shot without problems groups of 3" at 470yards and 7" at 800yards.
7 rem groups are 2" at 350 yards..so what the best choice in your opinion for shootingout 600yards? 308 or 7rem? bullets: parttion? barnes? sst hornady?berger? what weight? what velocity(i think the best i can obtain in safety..)
thanks a lot

DRAGO1,
Either rifle is very capable at 600 yards of cleanly hitting your mark and plenty of knock down power for deer sized animals. Personally I would go with the 7MM and the heaviest bullet it will accurately shoot, mine shoots the 168 Berger's very well. I personally don't think the Barns or Nosler Partitions are a very good long range bullet as I have found them not accurate enough but if your gun will shoot them accurately then they would work great as they are very well constructed bullets, the new Barns TSX bullets are suppose to be the best of both worlds, I don't have any experience with them although I have several boxes to test later, I have had good luck with the Hornaday sst's, and interbonds and the Nosler Accubonds. for ground hogs and other varmints I use a-max or v-max bullets, for hunting bullets I prefer to stick with a partition style bullet or a bonded bullet depending on the animal and distance used, large boned heavy animals for 300yards and closer Partition style bullets, for long range smaller animals like deer,long boat tail bonded bullets, or the Berger VLD hunting bullets have proven to be reliable but again I think the Berger is a little lacking like the A-Max if you happen to hit bone, in my last three Elk taken and four deer the Nosler Accubonds have performed flawlessly and are extremely accurate in my rifles.
Wayne.

 

[DOGCAPPER]

+1 for the 7mm Mag..Last elk I shot(1998) fell in its tracks, lunged a couple of times and died..Used Speer 160 Grand Slam and enough powder to seperate the case at the shoulder....Could have been old brass....Elk ranged at 197 yds...Bullet found on offside of chest cavity just under the skin..I prefer this type performance by bullets over full penetration. Rifle was Browning B78 single shot...If you miss the first time,you dont deserve a second shot...LT

 

[bozo699]

+1 for the 7mm Mag..Last elk I shot(1998) fell in its tracks, lunged a couple of times and died..Used Speer 160 Grand Slam and enough powder to seperate the case at the shoulder....Could have been old brass....Elk ranged at 197 yds...Bullet found on offside of chest cavity just under the skin..I prefer this type performance by bullets over full penetration. Rifle was Browning B78 single shot...If you miss the first time,you dont deserve a second shot...LT

Patti,
I work where they make the Grand Slams they are a very well built bullet, I don't believe there ideal for long range but will definitely hold together, I did make a one shot kill with my .338-.378 wby mag at 705 yards with a 250 grand slam in 2004 I think it was.
I had a browning 78 doing what yours did, the head space was a little off and some gunk was preventing it from locking up all the way, I had my gunsmith clean and repair and it worked flawlessly after that. Neat rifles aren't they?
Wayne.

 

[DRAGO1]

Thanks a lot, bozo 699, i'm a little scared about berger for the tip: no lead, no hole, no plastic tip, but if you and many people say ok berger, i don't have to exitate and i'm happy tu trust you.
about weight, i'm oriented on 168grs. twist of my concari rifle is 1:9 in a hammerli barrel
but i will go to make some tests with 140 also, to find the best combination
by the way, my possibilities fo shooting, are from A-B (430Y), A-C(600-800Y) E-D(430) E-H(600) E-G (550) F-E(600-700)
http://www.armeria-concari.com/prima%20pagina/prima%20pagina.htm

 

[JabaliHunter]

Hi, i'm from italy, apologige for my english... i shot a red deer vith a 308 155 a-max ( muzzle vel 2890fps) at 295yards and i hit the chest, shocking lungs, but not the heart ! deer was heavy about 220lbs and it traveled about 150 yards far: this is absolutely no good for me. now season is closed but i think the next i'll hunt vith my 7 rem mag made by " concari " vith 26" barrel. i tested velocity vith 162-amax: 3020fps and 3050 vith 150nosler partition, i have also 60 rounds of pmc vith 160xlc barnes, but i heard that at long distance barnes may have problems in expanding...is true? i'm very confused, can anyone help me for the better choice? probably next year distance shot can reach 600 yards..
as soon as possible, i'll post pic of shot placement..

I think your experience with the .308 was just unfortunate and the stag ran a good distance before expiring due to the shot placement. Nevertheless the .308 is a classic cartridge for deer and very effective. Nothing wrong with the 155gr but I would try and use some of the 165gr loads or handload with a Nosler Partition. In the 7mm Rem Mag, I would definitely not drop down to 120gr as you will damage a lot of meat and risk poor penetration when hitting bone. I see no reason to use anything less than a 160gr Nosler Partition or Accubond in a cartridge as powerful and fast as a 7mm Rem Mag. At the end of the day, either cartridge is more than enough for red deer and shot placement, not power, is the key. Yes the chest is large, but still try and hit the heart.

 

[DRAGO1]

In Italy we often say that " the blanket is short" ) for little damage to meat, behind the shoulder is the best solution, but if you miss the heart, usually happens that deer run away
and you need a dog for tracking, if you shoot in the middle of the shoulder, a little above the centerline, there is no problem, but with sierra gameking or a-max you waste half chamois or roedeer, the opposite shoulder is devasted everytime.
for very close range no problem: out to 100 meters i shoot every time neck or head.
here, hunters that i know, nobody use barnes, accubond, or similar, but the cheapest they can find, so no real experience to refers...
as a sensation, i would like try barnes or, as i said, berger, surely partition is a good choice but in my barrel groups ar not asi want on long distance
thanks for your patience

 

[sbhooper]

I have killed lots of deer with a Hornady 139 interlock in my 7 mag, but I think overall, the 7mm was meant to shoot the 160 grain bullets. Both of my rifles love the 160 Partitions at 3000 fps. I have shot lots of game with 175 grainers also, but I don't think they have anything on the 160s in the 7 mag.

 

[bozo699]

Thanks a lot, bozo 699, i'm a little scared about berger for the tip: no lead, no hole, no plastic tip, but if you and many people say ok berger, i don't have to exitate and i'm happy tu trust you.
about weight, i'm oriented on 168grs. twist of my concari rifle is 1:9 in a hammerli barrel
but i will go to make some tests with 140 also, to find the best combination
by the way, my possibilities fo shooting, are from A-B (430Y), A-C(600-800Y) E-D(430) E-H(600) E-G (550) F-E(600-700)
http://www.armeria-concari.com/prima%20pagina/prima%20pagina.htm

DRAGO1,
The Berger does have a hole as you call it on the tip, I have had pretty good luck with them but they can be picky on seating depth, if your not comfortable with them then try a Accubond or a Interbond, the Interbond looks just like your A-Max but it is a bonded bullet and is suppose to perform quite well although I have no experience with Kills and them, I have shot them at paper and there scary accurate.
Wayne.

 

[2506]

I have killed in the hundreds of white tail deer and they run anywhere from 90 lb to 250 lb on average. I helped work a huge farm as a control hunter where my buddy and I took 100 deer a year for 15 years. For this class of game it is hard to beat the Sierra 150 to 165 gr game king or pro hunter bullet in the 308 for close to long range. In the 7 mm mag the Hornady 154 gr Interlock or SST gets the job done very well.

 

[ChrisNZ]

+1 on the 165 Gameking in a .308.
I load these for my friend's rifle and they certainly level reds

Chris-NZ