Recommendation For Custom Hunting Rifle Builder

[MikeMcC]

drover,
That's one good looking rifle! Beautiful wood stock. And I can sure see she can shoot. I'm liking those Cooper rifles more every day.
Thanks for sharing,
Mike

 

[mikecr]

Keep in mind a few things:
- Accuracy is not grouping
- An accurate hunting gun, as used in the field, is not a benchrest gun
- An accurate hunting gun is one part of an accurate system, including load, glass, field rest, and ballistic adjustment
- If you want certain accuracy from a certain system, you're going to rely on luck to get there, or find & buy it completed & proven. You don't get it otherwise, no matter the effort or cost.

With this:
- A BR gunbuilder won't do you any good unless they also know how to build an accurate hunting gun
- When a gunbuilder will build on any cartridge and components YOU choose, they'll lie to you as well
- A 1/4IPHY hunting gun from a gunbuilder? Have them prove this before payment. Otherwise, assume it's not.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

How is the method of building and accurate rifle different in a hunting rifle or br rifle?

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't think it is any different. I would want my hunting gun pillar bedded with Devcon and chambered just as good as a bench gun. My Smith builds both and most bench rest builders do the same. If the smith lies it's time to get a new smith. Matt

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I don't think it is any different. I would want my hunting gun pillar bedded with Devcon and chambered just as good as a bench gun. My Smith builds both and most bench rest builders do the same. If the smith lies it's time to get a new smith. Matt

Exactly.

 

[drover]

Otter,
Thanks for the nice words about the Cooper. It is mule deer/elk/mountain sheep country but we are seeing less each year due to wolf depredation, they have also caused a significant drop in our coyote population. We have a generous wolf season and tags are reasonably priced but it is a lot more difficult to hunt them versus coyotes.

Mike,
I am very happy with my Coopers rather than just write about how good they look and shoot I thought I would use up some cyberspace and post pictures. As the old saying goes - "a picture is worth a 1000 words".

In a lot of ways I envy you in your search for the rifle of your dreams. There are many great smiths out there and many good rifles. Good luck and I hope it all works well for you.

If you do decide to go Cooper take a look at gunsamerica.com and gunbroker.com there are quite a few listed both places. In my personal experience I have purchased a couple from First Stop Guns in Rapid City, SD and in both instances it was a very good experience.

drover

p.s. - I did quite a bit of posting on this thread, it was not my intent to hi-jack the thread but rather to hopefully help you from making some of the expensive mistakes that I have made. Experience is an expensive teacher.

 

[mikecr]

How is the method of building and accurate rifle different in a hunting rifle or br rifle?

R&D and guarantee from a hunting rifle in a particular chamber would be the same as with a BR gun.
But it can't be done and guaranteed with just any ole shiny combination.
So find a BR 'smith' that will guarantee 1/4IPHY hunting trim accuracy from a ~243 capacity or above cartridge(Not a 6PPC/30BR).
You'll have zero luck there..
Are there hunting gun builders that have hammered out some combination here, and shoot it to proof before the sale?
A couple. And you buy what they did it with.

If my intended effort was nothing more than writing a check for brand new, no risk, 1/4IPHY hunting accuracy, I would assume that check is gonna be big, and I'd seek a gun builder(not a 'smith') to make it happen and show me. An example custom order might be optional from someone like GA Precision. But I don't know that.
I know of someone who personally asked for this from Savage, in target action 6br, and actually got it! Fully developed load including lot#s, FF'd brass, turn key, sent to his FFL!
Maybe it was luck? I'm thinking they had been testing one & wrapped it up & sent it to him. They didn't grab & send one off the shelf.

 

[Steve3]

Cooper. And put a Leupold VX-3 4x14 on it. You will be very happy.

 

[Steve3]

drover gives some great Cooper advice.

Yes, call Cooper and ask for the names of stocking dealers. No need to wait 9 months.

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't know of any builder that guarantees 1/4 moa accuracy. Rem 40x used to guarantee 1/2 and some others did also. He said he wants 22 cal 1/4 moa. I would do a 22Br or Dasher. That would make it possible. Matt

 

[effendude]

I don't know of any builder that guarantees 1/4 moa accuracy. Rem 40x used to guarantee 1/2 and some others did also. He said he wants 22 cal 1/4 moa. I would do a 22Br or Dasher. That would make it possible. Matt

The original question of the poster doesn't reflect his current thinking. He knows he doesn't need a 1/4MOA rifle to shoot coyotes and a honest 1/2MOA rifle will produce awes at every rifle range I have shot at. I think everyone agrees that the poster will have to write a big check to any smith who will make that 1/4MOA claim before building the rifle. Heck, most shooters would struggle to get that out of a rifle in a hunting configuration.

I believe many of the replies to this thread are attempting to say there are better ways to spend money. I can almost guarantee far more coyotes are shot using a 2MOA rifle with a $100 scope which spends its life in the rack of a truck than with a high buck rifle.

Get an accurate rifle, scope load your ammo and enjoy it.
Scott

 

[JRS]

I don't know of any builder that guarantees 1/4 moa accuracy. Rem 40x used to guarantee 1/2 and some others did also. He said he wants 22 cal 1/4 moa. I would do a 22Br or Dasher. That would make it possible. Matt

The original question of the poster doesn't reflect his current thinking. He knows he doesn't need a 1/4MOA rifle to shoot coyotes and a honest 1/2MOA rifle will produce awes at every rifle range I have shot at. I think everyone agrees that the poster will have to write a big check to any smith who will make that 1/4MOA claim before building the rifle. Heck, most shooters would struggle to get that out of a rifle in a hunting configuration.

I believe many of the replies to this thread are attempting to say there are better ways to spend money. I can almost guarantee far more coyotes are shot using a 2MOA rifle with a $100 scope which spends its life in the rack of a truck than with a high buck rifle.

Get an accurate rifle, scope load your ammo and enjoy it.
Scott

You hit the nail on the head

 

[SS427]

I just bought a Cooper from Cove Creek. Very pleased with the transaction. They answered all my questions promptly. I sent my FFL info and bought the gun on their website the same night. They shipped the very next day.

 

[mikecr]

You hunt for prairie dogs? Really? You stalk them with your 17lb BR gun?

Well anyway,
A 1/4moa gun is only that in actual use, and not per build.
So when you have a system you can carry in the field(actual hunting), and it produces 1/4moa of accuracy in this application, with enough energy to kill intended game, then you hold a 1/4moa hunting gun no matter who built it. I credit your work in this as well.
Until then, no amount of pedigree guarantees this, and it cannot be predicted or assumed. If it could be, then there would be the guarantees out there. Right? I don't see em, not even for 17lb+ naval guns built for BR.

I'm not saying that any particular guns, custom or factory, couldn't be 1/4moa hunting guns. I'm saying it can't be assumed that a gun well purpose built for bench rest has a better chance at it than a gun well purpose built for hunting.
And either way, it isn't such a hunting gun until it proves to be so with practical field use.

 

[dkhunt14]

You hunt for prairie dogs? Really? You stalk them with your 17lb BR gun?

Well anyway,
A 1/4moa gun is only that in actual use, and not per build.
So when you have a system you can carry in the field(actual hunting), and it produces 1/4moa of accuracy in this application, with enough energy to kill intended game, then you hold a 1/4moa hunting gun no matter who built it. I credit your work in this as well.
Until then, no amount of pedigree guarantees this, and it cannot be predicted or assumed. If it could be, then there would be the guarantees out there. Right? I don't see em, not even for 17lb+ naval guns built for BR.

I'm not saying that any particular guns, custom or factory, couldn't be 1/4moa hunting guns. I'm saying it can't be assumed that a gun well purpose built for bench rest has a better chance at it than a gun well purpose built for hunting.
And either way, it isn't such a hunting gun until it proves to be so with practical field use.

Yeah but the hunting guns I see that are accurate are built with benchrest gun techniques. Matt

 

[MikeMcC]

(also posted this in the .22 forum section)
Thank you to all for the great information and diverse opinions offered. Gave me a lot to think about. To make a long story short (really came very close to ordering a Cooper), I decided to move forward with my original plan and kept my order in place at Kelbly's for their Arcas Series hunting rifle based on their Atlas short-action chambered in .22-250 Rem. I chose to have them use their reamer for a standard SAAMI spec chamber. Since this will be a hunting use and recreational target rifle, I decided I didn't want to get involved in neck turning and custom dies. Also allows the rifle to shoot standard off-the-shelf ammo if that is ever necessary.
I'll have a lot of fun with this new rifle and when the time is right I always have the option to take it to a higher level with a new barrel with tight-neck chamber.
I should see this rifle in about three months and after breaking it in right, I'll let everyone know what I think and how accurate I personally can shoot it.
Thanks again to all,
Mike

 

[dkhunt14]

That is probably a good choice. It probably has a fiberglass stock which to me makes a better hunting gun. I hate to carry fancy wood and worry about falling or bumping it around. Kelby's should make a good rifle because they make benchrest guns. 22-250 is usually a very accurate cartridge. Matt

 

[bowfisher]

I wish I could hold 1/4" MOA off shooting sticks, in the field. My head wouldn't fit through my door, I'd be so proud of myself.... 8)

 

[Webster]

Divorce, bankruptcy and forfeiture are cures. Someone I know was on the Federal Watch list for dangerous people. A neighbor called the police and said they thought he was shooting stray dogs and burying them in the woods behind his house. The police sent out a search team and combed the woods for burial sites. They never found any evidence. Since then everytime a candidate for a national office campaigned in Cleveland the police would come to his house and collect all of his guns and return them when the candidate left town.

Someone said you can not get 1/4" groups without a lot of custom parts. I have a Rem 700 BDL Varmint rifle bought in 1972 for about $135. It was glass bedded and has a Kreiger 6BR 14 twist barrel on it. It always shoots 100 yd. groups with a 1/4' or less vertical no wind flags. I use a bipod on the bench and field. If you want an accurate rifle I think the way to go is to choose a cartridge that's known to be accurate in competition and get a custom barrel. You can always glass bed it later and buy a custom trigger. The 22-250 has never set a record of any kind at any distance since it was made. Don't buy a 22-250 and assume it has to shoot very small groups just because the quality of bullets and barrels is much better than it used to be. How long does it take for people to catch on? Someone on this website just bought a 6.5-47. I wasn't familiar with the caliber so I looked it up. The 6.5-47 was designed just for competition at 600-1000 yards, barrel life and to be as accurate as a 6BR. Sounds like a great long distance varmint cartridge. You don't need a $2000 scope for varmints. If I buy another scope it will be a 4.5-14X Leopold VX3 for about $600. I wouldn't be influenced to buy a 22-250 just because you have the dies and bullets. If you spend in the $2500 range the dies are a small price considering the years of fun you will have. A 22 BR Norma might be a good choice only because the bullets cost a lot less than the 6mm and 6.5mm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5%C3%9747mm_Lapua

 

[JRS]

Maybe a bit farther than you want to go, but, you would be hard pressed to find a better accuracy gunsmith than Al Warner of WTC fame 8) They also build phenomenal hunting rifles