RECOIL VERSUS POI

[GrocMax]

For me, what I found with a hard hold is my trigger hand *HAS* to fit the stock correctly, or I get a ton of horizontal or 'everywhere'. I have large beefy beat up hands, and its not necessarily the large palm stocks that work for me, its more the total shape, or where the large muscle at the base of the thumb rests. Its like my wrist involuntarily twitches when it isn't 'right', like my thumb is trying to influence the trigger finger. If the stock isn't 'right' for my trigger hand on a hard hold, when I switch to using the middle finger as the trigger finger groups get tighter. Its like my wrist twists, and holding the first finger parallel to the barrel cancels the tendency to twist. Change palm shape and its back to good. Does that make any sense?

I'm not a competitive shooter by any means, but noticed my POI goes up about an inch at 100 yds typical PD type rifle off bags on a hard shoulder hold vs. a light one, and just need to make sure technique is consistent during load dev. or I get really bad data and make bad decisions. Vertical POI changes between load dev. and field use (altitude, technique, etc. ) can be compensated for easily, bad loads that throw all over can't. On that note also found making load decisions on 3 and 5 shot groups are far inferior to a larger statistical sample like 10, spread shooter error over a larger sample and get better load data. Been more than one 3 or 5 shot group looked great until I shot 20 of the same.

It's my belief that unless your rifle is designed to be fired using the "free recoil" method then the hard shoulder hold/cheek weld method will yield best results once you master it.

It's important to make sure that what you're doing is the SAME with every shot. Same cheek weld, same pressure into the shoulder, same position of the other shoulder, same grip, and on, and on.

Take a look at most Bench Rest stocks and note that they're designed with wider, flat, fore ends, flat bottomed stocks, and the bags are waxed so the rifle will slide freely without disturbing the supports. In many cases, once one of these rifles is fired, when the shooter returns it to the original position, the crosshairs are right back on the point of aim (or darn close).

When you can do that with a tight shoulder hold, you've now mastered it.

In the beginning, one just about needs a checklist to make sure that they're setting up for the shot the same way each time. In time it just becomes natural.

 

[BoydAllen]

Yes it does. It seems to me that you have done an excellent job of observing and adapting. One suggestion on the subject....set up your trigger hand from trigger contact back. Many times shooters get their hand comfortable on the stock and then the trigger finger is out of position to pull the trigger straight back. Also, just because a stock makes it convenient to grip it like a pistol, when shooting from a support, don't. You will tend to loose accuracy because you will move your hand, and twist the stock a little as you pull the trigger. This is the reason that thumb hole stocks went out of style a number of years back in short range benchrest. If you put your thumb in the hole, and grip the stock, you will tend to torque the rifle as you pull the trigger, and you won't do it the same every time.

 

[amlevin]

For me, what I found with a hard hold is my trigger hand *HAS* to fit the stock correctly, or I get a ton of horizontal or 'everywhere'. I have large beefy beat up hands, and its not necessarily the large palm stocks that work for me, its more the total shape, or where the large muscle at the base of the thumb rests. Its like my wrist involuntarily twitches when it isn't 'right', like my thumb is trying to influence the trigger finger. If the stock isn't 'right' for my trigger hand on a hard hold, when I switch to using the middle finger as the trigger finger groups get tighter. Its like my wrist twists, and holding the first finger parallel to the barrel cancels the tendency to twist. Change palm shape and its back to good. Does that make any sense?

I have pretty much the same problem with big, beat up, hands. My favorite rifle has a B&C "A-5" style stock with a pronounced pistol grip. With my hand size I merely grip the stock between palm and last three fingers, pulling firmly back into my shoulder while pre-loading the bipod (leaning into it a little). I let the thumb find a comfortable place to merely rest. This works well enough to allow me to get sub 1/4 MOA accuracy out of a factory barrel and action.

I wish I had longer fingers to go with the thickness of my hands. Darn "paws" measure 2-1/2" thick from the "meat" at the base of the thumb to top of hand while lying flat. Only 3-1/2" of "reach" with trigger finger.

One thing good, I guess. I can crack walnuts with these "mitt's" to entertain my grandkids at christmas time.