RCBS 1010 Scale Question

[Crackers]

Hi all,

I am new to reloading (about 2 months) and have a set of RCBS 1010 scales for powder measurements.
I measure every throw as I only load about 30 rounds at a time for F Class shooting on the weekend.

One thing I have noticed while tinkering one day, was after completing 15 loads I decided to move the weights back to the zero, but the beam never went back to zero. It was reading high.

So I re-zeroed the scales and loaded another 15 rounds and then moved the weights back to zero just to see the result. And again the beam was reading high.

Has anyone who owns a 1010 seen this before?

Everything appears to be set up right, bench is level and I am in a draft free room. I just would have thought that it would have come back to zero.

 

[VooDooMagic]

You say reading "high", as in the indicator line on the beam lifted past the stationary pointer? By how much?

 

[Crackers]

High by as much as 3mm (0.118")

I have googled this and a few other people have experienced a similar problem. I have been playing around with it this morning and I have narrowed it down to when ever the beam weights are moved to a new weight.

Which has me thinking that my loads will be out, as after zeroing the scales, I then move the weights according to my required load.

The scales are brand new, (2 months) and are clean and I cannot see any damage on the balance beam. The only thing I have noticed is that the plastic "v" blocks are different color. One being clear the other being white.

 

[in2deep]

Mine is ancient and repeats to within a kernel or 2 of powder and always zero's and trust it much better than my Acculab scale for repeatability and have a reference load of powder that I use to check it with but it's always right on.
Just a couple kernels of powder move the needle a noticeable amount to the next mark on the scale so possibly yours is not off by as much as you think since the graduations are so small and the scale so sensitive. If the scale repeats well to me that is more important than absolute accuracy as long as each charge weighs the same repeatedly that's all you can ask for and all you really need.
Try trickling up powder one kernel at a time and you should be able to see each one show on the scale it's pretty amazing and goes quick once you get the timing down.

 

[JRS]

in2deep is absolutely correct. I had Scott Parker AKA sparker, a member on this site, perform his magic on a couple of my scales. They are kernel sensitive. He knows these scales inside out.

 

[Cigarcop]

I would also make certain the top its sitting on is level and the scale isn't sitting a bit canted to one side.

 

[232]

Every time you change settings, make sure that the knives are centered and not touching the stop plates. If you look down directly above the v blocks, you can see there is 30 to 40 thou end play if you wiggle the beam. When changing weight settings, you may be pushing or pulling the end of the knives making one touch either end plate. This will cause a very slight drag and give readings that are slightly off. A good set of check weights to verify settings also helps much.

Hope you get your problem figured out.

 

[VooDooMagic]

And those v-blocks are actually "agate bearings", not plastic. Agate being a gemstone, it will vary in color shade.

 

[Crackers]

Thanks for all your help guys. I have made sure my bench is level and
I have also placed a level on the base of the level as well to ensure it is level when zeroed.

If RCBS don't come back with any useful help I might PM sparker and see if he can offer
any further info / help.

 

[TRECustom]

I had a problem a couple of years ago with my (old) 1010. It got to where it would vary as much as 3grs from charge to charge. I had left it assembled for years at a time and decided it could have finally set up some residual magnetism in the copper damping plate. I removed it from the beam, annealed it at about 1300 deg F, (medium red in good light), glass bead blasted the fire scale off of it, and adjusted the trim weight back to zero. Works like a charm. It will indicate on one or two granules of powder again. I now disassemble it between uses.

If nothing else works, send it to Mr. Parker, or try my fix.

Good luck, Tom

 

[Crackers]

Hi Trecustom,

As it is only 2 months old I would not have thought that the copper damping plates would have built up an residual magnetism, but you never know.

Sending my unit to Mr Parker is not a option as I am in Australia, but I will certainly see if he can give me some information.

Crackers

 

[guipago]

Hi Crackers!! I have noticed the same thing with my 10/10 scales as well, after zeroing ya have to be REAL carefull when moving the adjustable weights to their position cause if you move the V blocks a smidgeon it changes the zero balance point( & they will move,) after I zero I carefully hold down the arm with one finger & then move the weights to their position & eyeball the V blocks as I do it to see if they move, if they do re-zero & start again, even if ya accidently jolt the scales you bugger it! I've even had different charge weights from the pan being placed differentally on the swinging thingy, hope this can help, time for a beer, see ya. Geoff in OZ

 

[CatShooter]

Hi Trecustom,

As it is only 2 months old I would not have thought that the copper damping plates would have built up a residual magnetism, but you never know.

Sending my unit to Mr Parker is not a option as I am in Australia, but I will certainly see if he can give me some information.

Crackers

Good morning Crackers..

Then I bought my Ohaus scale *(agate bearings, and magnetic dampening) some 30+ years ago, and it took too long for the beam to settle down.

So I replaced the wimpy magnets with huge monster magnets, so that the beam would settle and come to a stop in two sweeps.
The scale is ALWAYS left assembled.
So that means that the copper plate has been in a 4 to 5 times stronger magnetic field for over 30 years... and there has been no change in the performance of the scale. When anything is placed in the pan, the scale will come to a stop at the same place (within 1/3 of a tenth), every time.

The copper plate CANNOT develop "residual magnetism" - it is scientifically impossible!!!

I think you probably have a dirt/binding problem. Take it apart and clean the hell out of everything and when putting it back together, make sure that nothing touches anything else.

Meow

 

[TRECustom]

Crackers, I went back and read your original post and all the replies.

You're right, being new, it should not have any residual magnetism in the copper damping plate. It took over 25 yrs for mine to start acting up, and I didn't catch it for a couple of years. I would see the different powder levels in some of the case necks, but attributed it to just different densities when I dumped the powder through the funnel. Wrong........

I haven't had the problem just from moving the weights, but I do it like Geoff. Just lightly hold down on the pointer end of the beam to move either one or both of the weights.

Use a good 5X to 10X magnifier and carefully inspect the sharp edges of the knives, and while the beam is out of the scale, blow the agate bearings out with compressed air and inspect them with the magnifier too. Even though it is new, it still might be damaged or have a piece of grit in it. Not very likely, since it always reads high when it's off. Probably not coincidence that mine always read high when it was off too.

Your loads will be inconsistent. Some on, some close, and some high. I have 2 other beam scales, and I used both of them to verify that the 1010 was screwing up, and then for awhile to verify that it was right again after I repaired it. It is my go - to scale.

I don't trust my digital scale. It has to be re-zeroed too often. It's o.k. for weight-matching brass or bullets (much faster than a beam scale), but I don't measure powder charges on it.

Some very experienced handloaders say that the charge weight is not that critical for accuracy. Even some benchresters. They're probably right, but I weigh all charges too, just to eliminate one variable. If my loads are inconsistent, I know that something else is causing it.

To me, the beam scale is the heart of the reloading process, and the last word on powder, case, or bullet weight. It has to be right every time. Between the 3 beam scales and the electronic, I've got a selection of test weights. I use them and I trust them. Even if they're off a few 10ths of a grain, they don't vary, and assure consistency in the weighing process.

If Mr. Parker can't help, or RCBS doesn't replace the scale, as a last resort, try my fix. It isn't hard to do, and at that point, you'll have nothing to lose.

Let us know how it comes out.

Tom

 

[in2deep]

For the price Scott charges to tune and calibrate them and how long it will last it may be the best investment you can make in reloading and at least affords peace of mind and eliminating a big variable.

 

[Crackers]

Hi Crackers!! I have noticed the same thing with my 10/10 scales as well, after zeroing ya have to be REAL carefull when moving the adjustable weights to their position cause if you move the V blocks a smidgeon it changes the zero balance point( & they will move,) after I zero I carefully hold down the arm with one finger & then move the weights to their position & eyeball the V blocks as I do it to see if they move, if they do re-zero & start again, even if ya accidently jolt the scales you bugger it! I've even had different charge weights from the pan being placed differentally on the swinging thingy, hope this can help, time for a beer, see ya. Geoff in OZ

Hi Geoff,
This is one of the symptoms that I am experiencing as well as the beam indicating that a charge is overweight, so I remove "x" amount of kernels only to end up putting back in all the kernels I removed and having it at the index mark.....?

I intend to "borrow" some alcohol solution from work and clean the buggery out it and also inspect the knife edges.

Frustrating, but I do believe that I am getting somewhere with all the help from everyone here.

 

[guipago]

Crackers, after I Zero the scale I give the end of the beam a slight dab with the finger, this seems to reset the scale & 9 times outa 10 re-adjustment is required, after reading all the replies I've started to think about them (bad move) & thought more about the surface the scales sit on & the adjusting screw & how it re-acts to the different surfaces it has to contend with, maybe the screw thread "loads" it's self somehow,dunno(maybe this gives me an excuse to pull it apart!!) I'm also looking for a piece of dressed granite or such to put a RCBS chargemaster on so I will try the scales on it.( by the way I'm waiting for the Chargemaster to come from a company called Natchez Shooting Supplies, bought the US version, just have to get my own 9v, power source from Dick Smiths, landed a bit over $350 AUS, worth thinking about!)

 

[Crackers]

Gota love that Aussie Dollar. The only reason I went for the 1010 over the charge master was that two of my fellow club members had to return there charge masters within 6months of purchase. Both would not carry out the calibration function.

Playing around with the 1010 scales last night I followed a few of the pointers with regards to being very careful with the beam and it has made a huge difference. Also I cleaned the pivot blocks with alcohol and a ear cleaner and there was a bit of dirt / grime that came off, small but you never know.

I would love to buy one of the RCBS charge masters but I have got a new toy coming over from the guys at GA Precision soon, so I am scrimping and saving for that currently.

Cheers

Crackers

 

[lurcher]

I also had a set of RCBS scales (5-0-5) that gave me the grief you describe.

I finally gave up on mine and bought a scale direct from Scott Parker (I live in New Zealand). He recommended a tuned redding scale. I check it regularly with rcbs check weights and it is very good. It catches my chargemaster out all the time.... The chargemaster is often out by 0.1-0.2 grains and sometimes more, however I have a drafty old house and a wobbly power supply..............