Range Trip to Compare 6 Dasher Primers

[scott_at_vortex]

If you have never used these sr copper cupped russian primers then you really have no idea how soft they are. They honestly have no place in competition shooting. They literally will flatten/top hat with any beginning book data load. I wouldnt base anything off of the feedback that those primers give you.


This is just a general statement and my opinion based off of my experience with them.

 

[savagedasher]

Every primer I see show high pressure. .
Larry

 

[jlow]

If you have never used these copper cupped russian primers then you really have no idea how soft they are. They honestly have no place in competition shooting. They literally will flatten/top hat with any beginning book data load. I wouldnt base anything off of the feedback that those primers give you.


This is just a general statement and my opinion based off of my experience with them.

I have use many thousands of Wolf SRM for many years and with loads that are pretty hot (.223/.556 77gr NCC moving at 2,750 fps) and have never seen a blown primer. Now if you are talking about CCI400, I would completely agree with you.

 

[Laurie]

Scott and the OP aren't talking about the Russian Wolf / Tula / Murom SRM jlow. I know exactly which model he is referring to and it is very soft indeed, if anything weaker than the CCI-400 and Rem 6 1/2. These are the ones with a very deep copper colour. The Russian SRM is one of the hardest around by contrast.

I did side by side tests of 14 SR models last autumn in 308 Win / Palma brass. Although the series was geared to MV / ES /SD, the test loading was worked up to being one that produced mid range to warm pressures, warm enough to show if primers have weak cups, but not guaranteeing cup 'blanking' in the Stolle action used. The very soft copper-colour Russians gave very good results indeed in the velocity consistency stakes and although very flat, all 17 test cartridges had no examples of 'blanking' Only one did in fact, 1980s era Vihtavuori primers. (Yes, Viht used to sell its own brand of primer - whether it made them in-house I can't say, although the packets are marked 'Made in Finland'.) That model had to be abandoned after three or four rounds and the remaining rounds demilled.

The half dozen best preformers which included the standard Russian model were then tried in my go-to FTR 308 Palma brass load in the same rifle - 155.5gn Berger over 8208 XBR at 3,027 fps - and one blanked out of 17, so too soft for warm, near max pressure loads.

 

[jlow]

Scott and the OP aren't talking about the Russian Wolf / Tula / Murom SRM jlow. I know exactly which model he is referring to and it is very soft indeed, if anything weaker than the CCI-400 and Rem 6 1/2. These are the ones with a very deep copper colour. The Russian SRM is one of the hardest around by contrast.

I did side by side tests of 14 SR models last autumn in 308 Win / Palma brass. Although the series was geared to MV / ES /SD, the test loading was worked up to being one that produced mid range to warm pressures, warm enough to show if primers have weak cups, but not guaranteeing cup 'blanking' in the Stolle action used. The very soft copper-colour Russians gave very good results indeed in the velocity consistency stakes and although very flat, all 17 test cartridges had no examples of 'blanking' Only one did in fact, 1980s era Vihtavuori primers. (Yes, Viht used to sell its own brand of primer - whether it made them in-house I can't say, although the packets are marked 'Made in Finland'.) That model had to be abandoned after three or four rounds and the remaining rounds demilled.

The half dozen best preformers which included the standard Russian model were then tried in my go-to FTR 308 Palma brass load in the same rifle - 155.5gn Berger over 8208 XBR at 3,027 fps - and one blanked out of 17, so too soft for warm, near max pressure loads.

Laurie – I cannot say that we might be talking about different primers, but the fact is no one have given a more detailed description than “Tula” and “copper color”. FWIW, my Wolf SRM is of course Russian and they are in fact “copper color” and Wolf and Tula LRP are interchangeable. So if there is yet another type out there, let’s get some details out there so that we are not talking about different things

 

[scott_at_vortex]

I have use many thousands of Wolf SRM for many years and with loads that are pretty hot (.223/.556 77gr NCC moving at 2,750 fps) and have never seen a blown primer. Now if you are talking about CCI400, I would completely agree with you.

I agree, the wolf srm are fantastic and I have used thousands of them and continue to use them. I was referring to non-magnum SR primers as it appears that is what the OP is using since I dont think he pierced wolf SRM's with 33gr of vgt, but didnt pierce any of the other primers he used. This along with the fact that I have never seen a pierced wolf srm(i'm sure its happened,but I havent seen it) is why I am fairly certain he was using standard small rifle copper cupped russian primers. If you havent used these I will be happy to send you some as I definitely will never use them.

 

[jlow]

I too have used thousands of wolf srm primers and continue to use them. I was referring to non-magnum SR primers as it appears that is what the OP is using since I highly doubt he pierced wolf SRM's with 33gr of vgt, but didnt pierce any of the other primers he used. This along with the fact that I have never seen a pierced wolf srm(i'm sure its happened,but I havent seen it) is why I am fairly certain he was using standard small rifle copper cupped russian primers. If you havent used these I will be happy to send you some as I definitely will never use them.

OK, well that is a bit more clear... No thanks, I think I will pass!

 

[scott_at_vortex]

OK, well that is a bit more clear... No thanks, I think I will pass!

LOL, Are you sure? Everyone should experience them at least once.

 

[jlow]

LOL, Are you sure? Everyone should experience them at least once.

LOL! The fact is I have indeed already experienced enough with the CCI400, and that is enough for a life time for me...

Still, it's a good learning experience hearing about these "other" non-magnum SR primers - something to keep in mind when buying primers....

 

[basshusker]

Just out of curiosity, what is the diameter of your firing pin tip. The reason that I ask is that if it is the same as a standard Remington, having it bushed down by Greg Tannel may alleviate your problem, and allow you to use those primers. I have an action that has a small pin tip diameter, and have shot those primers without problems, although I cannot say that my pressures were the same as yours. The only reason that I suggest that you look at this option is that your results indicate that these primers gave the best accuracy. Another option would be to try the "magnum" version of the same primer, which I understand has the same size pellet, and intensity, but a tougher cup. One thing that I should also point out is that most primer tests are done wrong. They hold the powder weight constant, which results in differences in velocities depending on the heat of the different primers. If one were to load at the range, find the velocity of the best load with one primer, and vary the powder charge to produce the same velocity with the other primers, you might come up with more useful information.

EXACTLY! It is apples and oranges. Different primer could change the ideal Powder charge .5 g in a small or medium size cartridge. Heck, changing seating depth 5 thou could change the load several
.1g. I was pretty amazed when I got qickload and started tweaking variables.

 

[Laurie]

Once you've seen this model, the 'copper' colour is quite different from any other. It is copper, whereas others are a lighter shade of brass colour (not surprising as that is what primer cups are made from, the 'silver' ones being nickel plated.) These are a true much deeper copper like you sometimes see in ancient .22 rimfire ammo where the cases were either pure copper or a very low zinc content brass.

Description is complicated because we've never had Wolf / Tula primers in the UK. The SR / SRMs I have are PMC branded from the days of that company, and on the very rare occasions we get Russian primers here now, they use the factory name 'Murom'.

Here is a pic of what I'm talking about.

 

[jlow]

Once you've seen this model, the 'copper' colour is quite different from any other. It is copper, whereas others are a lighter shade of brass colour (not surprising as that is what primer cups are made from, the 'silver' ones being nickel plated.) These are a true much deeper copper like you sometimes see in ancient .22 rimfire ammo where the cases were either pure copper or a very low zinc content brass.

Description is complicated because we've never had Wolf / Tula primers in the UK. The SR / SRMs I have are PMC branded from the days of that company, and on the very rare occasions we get Russian primers here now, they use the factory name 'Murom'.

Here is a pic of what I'm talking about.

Wow! That's quite different - almost pink! For comparison, here are a few of the Wolf SRM that I shot today.

 

[1shot]

Wow, I guess a pic is worth a thousand words! I've never seen the one's on the right of Laurie's pic before.
That really helps,

Lloyd