Range Trip to Compare 6 Dasher Primers

[walker2713]

I'm new to 6 Dasher, and have been using CCI 450s with good results. I decided to compare some other primers I've got in my "inventory" and loaded 40 rounds, ten each with 450s, BRs, Tula and Rem 7 1/2. All were with 33gr of Varget....shooting at 100 yards.

I had especially good results with the Rems and the Tulas...best 5 shot group was with the Tulas.

Of the ten Tula's the first five seem to have the primers pierced, unless I'm misreading something.

The velocity of all ten rounds were consistent: ED of 20, SD of 6...average velocity of 3026.

Here's a photo.....the first five grouped at .409", the last five on the right at .171."

Comments? Thoughts?

 

[Geronimo Jim]

What bullet?

 

[FatBoy]

I had this same issue with copper cupped Wolf SR primers and 6.5x47L. I tossed them, cups are way too soft for any high pressure rounds.

 

[walker2713]

What bullet?

Berger 105gr Hybrid

 

[/VH]

I'm new to 6 Dasher, and have been using CCI 450s with good results. I decided to compare some other primers I've got in my "inventory" and loaded 40 rounds, ten each with 450s, BRs, Tula and Rem 7 1/2. All were with 33gr of Varget....shooting at 100 yards.

I had especially good results with the Rems and the Tulas...best 5 shot group was with the Tulas.

Of the ten Tula's the first five seem to have the primers pierced, unless I'm misreading something.

The velocity of all ten rounds were consistent: ED of 20, SD of 6...average velocity of 3026.

Here's a photo.....the first five grouped at .409", the last five on the right at .171."

Comments? Thoughts?

View attachment 983052

Those little 'blanks' that are missing from those primers are liable to be inside your bolt, just waiting to glitch up your firing pin travel and the tip of the firing pin may have suffered some erosion.

 

[watercam]

FWIW the Tula 5.56 SR primers have harder cups. Mute point in any event as they are not available anymore!

 

[jlow]

FWIW the Tula 5.56 SR primers have harder cups. Mute point in any event as they are not available anymore!

They are indeed hard cup, in fact MIL primers that others have in fact complain too hard to set off..

I think your blown primers are not good news as not only will you get debris in your bolt as the other poster have said, but I am pretty sure they would cause damage to both your bolt face and also the head of the firing pin - would suggest you check especially the firing pin as that in turn can cause pierced primers on it s own.

Although it is a good effort to find out which one works better in terms of precision and SDev, because you have not worked up the load for each primer, you are essentially "winging it" by just changing the primer using a load that you perhaps knows is good and safe for your original primer. This is one reason why you have blown primers. Unfortunately I don't think this is the way to evaluate primers.

 

[22BRGUY]

It looks to me like you are at the very top end of the pressure node. Something changed slightly between the first 5 and the last five. Could be many things like air temp, perhaps more carbon lubrication in the barrel from the first five that might have slightly reduced pressure or???
Would suggest dropping the charge down a few tenths or changing powders or whatever it takes to reduce the pressure enough to stop the piercing. JMHO

 

[savagedasher]

It looks to me like you are at the very top end of the pressure node. Something changed slightly between the first 5 and the last five. Could be many things like air temp, perhaps more carbon lubrication in the barrel from the first five that might have slightly reduced pressure or???
Would suggest dropping the charge down a few tenths or changing powders or whatever it takes to reduce the pressure enough to stop the piercing. JMHO

Depending on the free bore and how far the bullet is being jumped he is definitely on the warm side The primers that is not pierced is flowing around firing pin . Larry

 

[/VH]

It looks to me like you are at the very top end of the pressure node. Something changed slightly between the first 5 and the last five. Could be many things like air temp, perhaps more carbon lubrication in the barrel from the first five that might have slightly reduced pressure or???
Would suggest dropping the charge down a few tenths or changing powders or whatever it takes to reduce the pressure enough to stop the piercing. JMHO

Some more possibilities of what might have changed is the firing pin may have been dragging on primer blanks and/or residue, or possibly firing pin protrusion may have decreased due to primer blanks/residue limiting travel.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Those little 'blanks' that are missing from those primers are liable to be inside your bolt, just waiting to glitch up your firing pin travel and the tip of the firing pin may have suffered some erosion.

I had that happen in a match with my 223. Didn't notice pierced primer, loaded next round, pulled trigger - 'click'. Pulled bolt open, powder everywhere since I was shooting VLDs jammed real good. Had to sprint to my car to get a cleaning rod, sprint back, un-jam bullet. Shook the bolt and the washer from the pierced primer fell out, it had blocked the firing pin on the subsequent shot. Since then I check the primer on *every* fired case And I bring a cleaning rod to the line when I shoot jammed bullets.

 

[/VH]

I had that happen in a match with my 223. Didn't notice pierced primer, loaded next round, pulled trigger - 'click'. Pulled bolt open, powder everywhere since I was shooting VLDs jammed real good. Had to sprint to my car to get a cleaning rod, sprint back, un-jam bullet. Shook the bolt and the washer from the pierced primer fell out, it had blocked the firing pin on the subsequent shot. Since then I check the primer on *every* fired case And I bring a cleaning rod to the line when I shoot jammed bullets.

^
Now that's dedication to finishing a string! Did all that mid-match exercise help your score?

 

[Highpower-FClass]

^
Now that's dedication to finishing a string! Did all that mid-match exercise help your score?

Haha, It ended up not too bad considering my elevated heart rate and having to shoot the remainder pretty rapidly to stay within the time limit.

 

[timeout]

I may be off base, but when I developed that problem in a 6 BR, I sent the bolt to GreTan for a bushing and smaller diameter firing pin. Problem solved. Inexpensive and quick turn around time. IME primer flowing around the pin can be attributed to sloppy tolerance between the bolt and firing pin, alone, or in conjunction with unsafe pressure. It may be my eyes but I cant see the pic clearly enough to ascertain how flat the primer itself is and if it is expanding way out around the side edges of the primer pocket. I keep a close eye on pressure not only by primer and bolt lift, but by measuring case length and circumference down at/near the case web.

 

[jlow]

I may be off base, but when I developed that problem in a 6 BR, I sent the bolt to GreTan for a bushing and smaller diameter firing pin. Problem solved. Inexpensive and quick turn around time. IME primer flowing around the pin can be attributed to sloppy tolerance between the bolt and firing pin, alone, or in conjunction with unsafe pressure. It may be my eyes but I cant see the pic clearly enough to ascertain how flat the primer itself is and if it is expanding way out around the side edges of the primer pocket. I keep a close eye on pressure not only by primer and bolt lift, but by measuring case length and circumference down at/near the case web.

It's not the bolt as it only happened with the Russian primers. It's using an un-tested primer in a load that is on the edge in terms of pressure. You can pierce primers using any firing pin if you are not careful and pushing the pressure.

 

[timeout]

It's not the bolt as it only happened with the Russian primers. It's using an un-tested primer in a load that is on the edge in terms of pressure. You can pierce primers using any firing pin if you are not careful and pushing the pressure.

Then his fix is easy, don't use those primers.

 

[jlow]

Then his fix is easy, don't use those primers.

Sorry, no. The problem is not the primers but the fact that he used a load associated with another primer that was on the edge without working up with the new primer.

BOTTOM LINE: No one can blame any reloading component for damage/danger if the reloader does not follow safety precautions.

 

[BoydAllen]

Just out of curiosity, what is the diameter of your firing pin tip. The reason that I ask is that if it is the same as a standard Remington, having it bushed down by Greg Tannel may alleviate your problem, and allow you to use those primers. I have an action that has a small pin tip diameter, and have shot those primers without problems, although I cannot say that my pressures were the same as yours. The only reason that I suggest that you look at this option is that your results indicate that these primers gave the best accuracy. Another option would be to try the "magnum" version of the same primer, which I understand has the same size pellet, and intensity, but a tougher cup. One thing that I should also point out is that most primer tests are done wrong. They hold the powder weight constant, which results in differences in velocities depending on the heat of the different primers. If one were to load at the range, find the velocity of the best load with one primer, and vary the powder charge to produce the same velocity with the other primers, you might come up with more useful information.

 

[timeout]

Sorry, no. The problem is not the primers but the fact that he used a load associated with another primer that was on the edge without working up with the new primer.

BOTTOM LINE: No one can blame any reloading component for damage/danger if the reloader does not follow safety precautions.

 

[timeout]

I get it that he did not work up to the load when he switched primers
The fact still remains that if everything was fine with the former primers, not using the ones that failed fixes his problem. In addition, it is possible that by sending his bolt to GreTan for the bushing and smaller firing pin modification, he may well be able to use those primers. I don't believe you can predict with certainty that he definitely cannot.