Quick cool after annealing... or not?

[Jose_Luis_G]

Hi guys,
I am very much confused abot this matter, since I've read both ways to anneal.
Is there a proper method, or it doesn't matter how you cool down?
Please enlight me.

 

[Mozella]

It doesn't matter. Simple air cooling is what I use mainly because dropping properly annealed cases into water doesn't do anything except make them wet.

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't think it matters. I dunk them in water so I can keep handle them and keep my match cases in the same order. I know lots of guys that just put them on a wet rag or do nothing at all. Matt

 

[tenring]

This same question has been on the board before. Someone said the factories do not wet the annealed brass, just let it air dry to cool.

 

[josebd]

from 6mmbr.com
Unlike steel, which will be made harder when it is cooled rapidly, brass is virtually unaffected when it is rapidly cooled. Annealing brass and suddenly quenching it in water will have no measurable effect on the brass. Cartridge cases are made of brass. When cartridge cases have been reloaded a number of times, the case necks become harder. Annealing will return the cartridge case necks to their factory original state.

 

[fguffey]

Some annealers go throught the motions of annealing, others follow basic fundamental rules of annealing. difference? One can not tell you why they do not cool the case and they other can (tell you why they cool the case).

F. Guffey

 

[LHSmith]

Hi guys,
I am very much confused abot this matter, since I've read both ways to anneal.
Is there a proper method, or it doesn't matter how you cool down?
Please enlight me.

Other than internet forums and YouTube demo's, I don't know of a single AUTHORITIVE source that claims "quenching" afterwards is beneficial to the process -other than ability to handle the brass quicker.

 

[jlow]

This is an age old question asked hundreds of times but never seems to go away. Quenching is totally unnecessary and all it does for you is to wet your case. Heated brass cools immediately when the flame is off and there is no where close to enough heat at the neck when done properly to migrate to the base.

 

[TAJ45]

Metallurgically, NOTHING changes in the molecular structure of the brass. Anything else is personal for whatever reason deemed necessary.

 

[fguffey]

Some annealers go throught the motions of annealing, others follow basic fundamental rules of annealing. difference? One can not tell you why they do not cool the case and they other can (tell you why they cool the case).

Years ago I started annealing, no Internet, I decided there were rules and factors. I wrote them down then built an annealer based on the fundamental/simple rules. Not to worry, there is nothing like it being used today.

F. Guffey

 

[TikkaSporter]

I hate getting my brass soaked, but I load and anneal for some shorter cases (6.5 Grendel/6mmAR) where the neck is rather close to the base of the case and I want it cooled before any heat migrates downward. I use a damp towel to cool the cases, I drop them on the towel and quickly fold the towel over the brass. You'll hear it sizzle for a second, then its cooled.

 

[savagedasher]

When annealing cooling in water only stops the annealing . Till a case cools to where annealing stop happing depends on what method matters. Short cases I like to cool so I don't soften the case too far down.
Larry

 

[fguffey]

You'll hear it sizzle for a second, then its cooled.

sizzle indicated the case tempreture exceeds the boiling point of water.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

When annealing cooling in water only stops the annealing .

That was after the Internet.

F. Guffey

 

[jlow]

I hate getting my brass soaked, but I load and anneal for some shorter cases (6.5 Grendel/6mmAR) where the neck is rather close to the base of the case and I want it cooled before any heat migrates downward. I use a damp towel to cool the cases, I drop them on the towel and quickly fold the towel over the brass. You'll hear it sizzle for a second, then its cooled.

That's understandable but the way to deal with this is to paint 400 degree Templiaq down the side to see if there is an actual problem. If you have already done this and find that it migrates down further than you want then it makes sense.

 

[TAJ45]

Quote "That's understandable but the way to deal with this is to paint 400 degree Templiaq down the side to see if there is an actual problem. If you have already done this and find that it migrates down further than you want then it makes sense.
[/quote]

However, NO annealing takes place under the 650-700° temp iirc. Therefore, there is no "stopping" any annealing effect. The necks will be approaching the an orange red or some non brass color, whatever your eye/brain sez it looks like @ the 650-800° once again iirc. It is in the mid 700s.

Annealing brass and the lesser temps attained near the necks are in no way akin to drawing back tool steel(s) from an undesired high hardness.

If you will hit youtube and look for the guy mentioned next, you'll learn a lot and have many of the old wives' tales dispelled:

There is a gent, older fellow with a plaid blue shirt that gives a great tutorial while demonstrating the Tempilac fail safes as well as hawking his hand powered annealing gizzie. I looked high and low for a weekend and his was the best FACTUAL presentation of the temps required to do a proper job.

 

[AckleymanII]

When the cases are standing in water deep enough to cover the case when tipped over(primer removed), the case color from annealing does not migrate anywhere near as far down the case compared if you anneal in open air!

Whether or not this information is worth while is anyone's opinion.

 

[TAJ45]

When the cases are standing in water deep enough to cover the case when tipped over(primer removed), the case color from annealing does not migrate anywhere near as far down the case compared if you anneal in open air!

Whether or not this information is worth while is anyone's opinion.

True AMII. A cosmetic result which of course places it in the aesthetic corner of personal druthers.

 

[amlevin]

The necks will be approaching the an orange red or some non brass color, whatever your eye/brain sez it looks like @ the 650-800° once again iirc. It is in the mid 700s.

Rather than rely on my eye/brain, or take the time to paint hundreds of cases with Tempilaq, I just use the Tempilstik heat crayon. I heat my first few cases using "time" and check the case temp at each time interval to see where the crayon just starts to melt (it will leave a slight "smear" like a sharpie on the case) and that amount of flame time then becomes the standard. I use a fresh case for each "test" so there is no error caused by heat buildup or loss. Those cases are merely annealed last.

For those that are rhythm challenged, just use a metronome app on your smart phone (or a real metronome if you wish). Set it at 60 beats per minute.

FWIW, the same heat crayon (750 degree) has served me for almost 5 years now. Who knows how much tempilac I would have used if I'd followed some methods that call for painting each case, inside the neck no less.

 

[Barlow]

I use 650 tempilaq on the lower part of the shoulder and on the body a short way. Use two torches in fixtures and a homemade case holder dumper (tech term) when the paint turns black plus a couple seconds, dump on wet towel. Been doing it this way for five years and have not lost a case to splitting yet. Barlow