Question to gunsmiths

[4xforfun]

Lets say I want to have a new Dasher tube chambered up for my BAT "M". Lets assume The smith has the correct reamers. Do you really NEED the action? Since I am making my brass from scratch (false shoulder PLUS jam) I don't care about head space.......I am making the brass to fit the chamber. If the chamber is a touch long or short, I don't care.....I will make perfect brass for it.



My thought would be indexing of the tube maybe...providing that the smith does that kind of stuff.

Now, it is obvious that I am NOT any kind of smith, so be gentle on me if this is a really stupid question. I just hate stripping everything down, paying all of the shipping and insurance, the down time without the action, the added risk of a lost or stolen action through shipping....etc....

Thanks,
Tod

 

[mikeeg02]

Judging from what were doing, he may want it to fit the threads perfectly. Not too loose, not too tight. He can likely go off of the measurements of one hes done before and being a bat, they should all be extremely close. But he may just prefer to have it. He can always cut the threads so loose (or to spec which isnt terribly lose) so that they definitely fit. But he may want to be a little more precise /tighter about it.

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

what kills me, is the tremendous added cost and complexity of sending the action. ATF says you are sending a firearm, even a bare action. UPS, FED-EX, DIEHL, even the USPS hose you; and it is a round trip cost. Compare that to a barrel.

 

[Walt Krafft]

If you want it done right send him the action. The threads will very from one action to another and a little bit can make a big difference how the threads fit. You may find a gunsmith that will do a second barrel without the action if he has the measuring tools and decent notes from the first one.

 

[Uthink Uknow]

If you are scrapping the present barrel. Cut the barrel off a couple inches ahead to the action. A smith can duplicate the chamber with the bit of information the stub contains, including indexing for the engraving. If you’re saving the barrel to use along with the dasher, just send him the barrel. What does your smith say?

 

[plainfield]

I work off the prints I have from BAT machine. The only reason I like having the action is to index caliber engraving. After verifying the engraving location on my index ring I take note and would technically not née the action again.

 

[STS]

With an existing barrel or stub and a thread mic a good gunsmith can fit the barrel to the exact dimensions as the old barrel. It's not that big of a challenge.

 

[joshb]

Send him the action. Small 2 day priority box thru the PO. Insured, of course. I had a 6.5-47 barrel for my Bat MB. I bought an SV with a crap barrel so I screwed it on. It fit and new brass fit, but I had to grind down a shell holder to resize them enough to reload them!

 

[tmwinds]

what kills me, is the tremendous added cost and complexity of sending the action. ATF says you are sending a firearm, even a bare action. UPS, FED-EX, DIEHL, even the USPS hose you; and it is a round trip cost. Compare that to a barrel.

No excessive cost or complexity involved in sending a rifle action you own to a licensed FFL gunsmith. It can be mailed by USPS Priority Mail for about $8.00 plus any insurance you desire. It can be returned to you the same way.

 

[bobinpa]

Lets say I want to have a new Dasher tube chambered up for my BAT "M". Lets assume The smith has the correct reamers. Do you really NEED the action? Since I am making my brass from scratch (false shoulder PLUS jam) I don't care about head space.......I am making the brass to fit the chamber. If the chamber is a touch long or short, I don't care.....I will make perfect brass for it.



My thought would be indexing of the tube maybe...providing that the smith does that kind of stuff.

Now, it is obvious that I am NOT any kind of smith, so be gentle on me if this is a really stupid question. I just hate stripping everything down, paying all of the shipping and insurance, the down time without the action, the added risk of a lost or stolen action through shipping....etc....

Thanks,
Tod

I don't care who made the action....I wouldn't have a barrel chambered without giving the builder the action. Everything might go perfect, but there is no way to be sure unless he has the action. If I'm getting something built, the cost of sending the action shouldn't make a difference.... that's a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost, so why chance it for 20.00 or even 50.00? My peace of mind is worth way more than that!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

if he wants it send it. most can do it without it but it'll be easier on them to have it. make him feel comfortable and try not to tell him how he should do things. maybe he wants it absolutely perfect- its a small price to pay to let him do it his way. if he feels its more difficult to do without the action I can assure you he will put you off longer. if the action and barrel is sitting there it will get done way faster than him having to tell you to ship it when hes ready, etc. use this time to shoot some other guns you've been neglecting or use it as an excuse to have a spare rifle on hand for next time you need a barrel on one.

 

[WayneShaw]

If you are scrapping the present barrel. Cut the barrel off a couple inches ahead to the action. A smith can duplicate the chamber with the bit of information the stub contains, including indexing for the engraving. If you’re saving the barrel to use along with the dasher, just send him the barrel. What does your smith say?

This.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I sent a barrel down to M.Ezell that was finished by S.Goodling and a new Lederer blank to be chambered in 30Major. Mike told me this would be fine. The Lederer barrel in 30Major came back perfect........Oh Yeah..........And happens to shoot lights out. Sid G. built my 6ppc that I use as a switch barrel built on and very old Bat action #S-7 and being very familiar with the gun ( having competed with it) he had made me a few barrels off my reamer just from his existing specs from previous work on it........There are smiths and there are Smiths.
I can chamber barrels but I can't do what Mike or Sid do to my satisfaction.

Regards
Rick

 

[Uthink Uknow]

No one ever accused me of being smart. This is a copy of Kelbly’s jig for determining engraving position.

 

[carlsbad]

Every rifle I barrel I keep a sketch with dimensions so I can rebarrel without the action.

If headspace isn't critical, the gunsmith still needs a few critical dimensions that he is probably better off not asking the average stranger to measure for him. Some customs, including Bat, publish the headspace and thread pitch info on their website. (bat has a drawing of each action, very nice).

The only risk now is that either the bolt/action lugs have been modified, or you have an older version of an action that was manufactured to a different print.

So there is always some risk doing it without the action but it can be done.

Your concern about indexing is valid. I go back and forth on that one. Sometimes I feel modern barrels are straight enough not to need indexing then I find a crooked one.

The other problem is marking the caliber and often the gunsmith name on the barrel. That won't be indexed....some wouldn't care.

One thing I do when headspacing, if this isn't the only rifle the guy has shooting this cartridge, i match the chamber to his other rifle so his shoulder bump setting on his dies doesn't have to change between rifles. There is .004 to .005 between go and no-go gauges and your shoulder bump really should be adjusted more accurately than that.

--Jerry

 

[rogn]

A couple of years back I had a barrel chambered by a known respected group. I didnt want to send a glued in action/rifle and blank through most of the established parcel wreckers, so I sent the blank, an old barrel and 2 fired cases from the old successful barrel. Just to make life more interesting we went from PPC bolt face to 308 dimensions, PPC chamber to 6X44(L) dimensions. Understanding that I assumed responsibility for understandable departures from expected results. Worked just fine. Headspace on previous barrels fired cases was right on minimum +1. If they agreed Id do it again.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Send the smith your action, but he should only need it one time. He will get all dimensions needed from it, and make notes. Then if anything is wrong, it's on him, and not on you. But if he requires action every time you need a barrel, find a different smith.