Question on 223ai FL die

[Deleted old_dood]

just curious if anyone using a 223ai FL die notices quite a bit more effort to size compared to other cartridges they FL size. reason I'm asking is, when I use my Redding body die, the effort seems to be twice what's necessary to FL my 6br cases. cases are properly lubed and the press is a Forster Coax. I wonder if it could be that I usually neck size or be because the ai cases are less tapered than a regular 223 case.

 

[stacy]

IN MY EXPERINCE THE BODY DIE JUST WORKS YOUR BRASS TO DEATH NECK SIZE LIKE YOUR DOING AND THEN FULL SIZE AFTER 4OR 5 FIRING BUT MINE IS TIGHT TO IN THE FULL LENGTH DIE ALSO MY BODY DIE WENT IN THE METAL BEN !!!!!!!!

 

[Deleted old_dood]

IN MY EXPERINCE THE BODY DIE JUST WORKS YOUR BRASS TO DEATH NECK SIZE LIKE YOUR DOING AND THEN FULL SIZE AFTER 4OR 5 FIRING BUT MINE IS TIGHT TO IN THE FULL LENGTH DIE ALSO MY BODY DIE WENT IN THE METAL BEN !!!!!!!!

so yours is tighter also, compared to full length sizing other calibers? I was thinking about having Whidden make me a custom die similar to the Forster bushing bump dies, one that would neck size but still be able to bump the shoulder

 

[stacy]

YES SIR MY 223 ACKLEY AND BOTH 243 ACKLEYS SAME WAY NO MORE BODY DIES FOR ME !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shoot4fun]

The taper can make it more difficult to FL resize.
Ackley cases usually get by longer on just neck sizing and don't require trimming either.

 

[jpretle]

just curious if anyone using a 223ai FL die notices quite a bit more effort to size compared to other cartridges they FL size. reason I'm asking is, when I use my Redding body die, the effort seems to be twice what's necessary to FL my 6br cases. cases are properly lubed and the press is a Forster Coax. I wonder if it could be that I usually neck size or be because the ai cases are less tapered than a regular 223 case.

old dude, is your Redding die an AI die or is it just an improved die. That may well be the difference. The improved die will size the shoulder body junction more than is needed for the AI case.

 

[BoydAllen]

Of course a FL die will take more effort than a neck die. As far as comparing effort of FL and body dies goes, the whole issue is how much the die reduces the diameter of the body of the case. The way that this is controlled is by planning ahead and matching the chamber to sized cases from the die, or if that is not possible, having a custom die made for the chamber, so that fired cases are sized just enough so that they are not tight, and no more. The most accurate rifles are used in benchrest matches, and for that application cases are generally FL sized, but not with ordinary FL dies. The dies are a close fit to the chambers that they are used for.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

old dude, is your Redding die an AI die or is it just an improved die. That may well be the difference. The improved die will size the shoulder body junction more than is needed for the AI case.

Could you please explain that??

Redding does not make a 223 "AI" die AND an "improved" die.

They only make one die, and it is called, " 223 Remington Improved 40° "

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Of course a FL die will take more effort than a neck die. As far as comparing effort of FL and body dies goes, the whole issue is how much the die reduces the diameter of the body of the case. The way that this is controlled is by planning ahead and matching the chamber to sized cases from the die, or if that is not possible, having a custom die made for the chamber, so that fired cases are sized just enough so that they are not tight, and no more. The most accurate rifles are used in benchrest matches, and for that application cases are generally FL sized, but not with ordinary FL dies. The dies are a close fit to the chambers that they are used for.

looks like a custom die is the direction I'll be going in.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

just curious if anyone using a 223ai FL die notices quite a bit more effort to size compared to other cartridges they FL size. reason I'm asking is, when I use my Redding body die, the effort seems to be twice what's necessary to FL my 6br cases. cases are properly lubed and the press is a Forster Coax. I wonder if it could be that I usually neck size or be because the ai cases are less tapered than a regular 223 case.

looks like a custom die is the direction I'll be going in.

1 - When you ask technical questions, it is VERY helpful to tell people what kind of rifle(s) you are talking about... I'm just saying.

There is nothing in your post that is unusual, or suggests the need for a custom die (which you will NOT be able to get for the 223 x 40° improved.... no one makes them). Custom FL dies are only made for 4 or 5 calibers - the BR family, the PPC family, the 6mx47, and maybe one or two others... the ones used in benchrest shooting.

The amount of resistance of a die is due to the size difference between the chamber and die - if you have a loose (maximum) chamber and a minimum FL die, then you will move the case walls more than if you have a minimum chamber. If you have a large or max chamber, there is nothing you can do (short of a new barrel and min reamer).

Your 6mmBR is very likely a minimum-ish chamber and the die has very little work to do. Your 223 improved is likely a max or large-ish chamber and the die has more work to do... and there is nothing you can do about it. As you gain experience in reloading, you will find that ALL dies in different calibers will feel different.

That is the only difference between the two - you don't have a problem, except worrying too much about nothing.

 

[jpretle]

Could you please explain that??

Redding does not make a 223 "AI" die AND an "improved" die.

They only make one die, and it is called, " 223 Remington Improved 40° "

It appears you have answered your own question. It is not an Ackley Improved die.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

1 - When you ask technical questions, it is VERY helpful to tell people what kind of rifle(s) you are talking about... I'm just saying.

There is nothing in your post that is unusual, or suggests the need for a custom die (which you will NOT be able to get for the 223 x 40° improved.... no one makes them). Custom FL dies are only made for 4 or 5 calibers - the BR family, the PPC family, the 6mx47, and maybe one or two others... the ones used in benchrest shooting.

The amount of resistance of a die is due to the size difference between the chamber and die - if you have a loose (maximum) chamber and a minimum FL die, then you will move the case walls more than if you have a minimum chamber. If you have a large or max chamber, there is nothing you can do (short of a new barrel and min reamer).

Your 6mmBR is very likely a minimum-ish chamber and the die has very little work to do. Your 223 improved is likely a max or large-ish chamber and the die has more work to do... and there is nothing you can do about it. As you gain experience in reloading, you will find that ALL dies in different calibers will feel different.

That is the only difference between the two - you don't have a problem, except worrying too much about nothing.

I emailed Whidden and described what I stated in my original post. Carrie Whidden replied back saying they could do it. I'd have to send in 3 fired cases. Maybe I'll follow up with a phone call. I think the type of rifle, mainly determined by what the receiver is, is irrelevant since the issue is related to how my dies and barrel chamber coexist. Since you mentioned it, it's a Savage LRPV that I put a Pacnor barrel on.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

It appears you have answered your own question. It is not an Ackley Improved die.

Sorry, but it IS an Ackley die - but they don't call it that. Because of the variability (sloppiness) in chamber headspace of Ackley chambers, people are drifting away from the name.

NONE of the Redding improved dies are referred to as "Ackley", or "AI".

It is a very long overdue move.

 

[jpretle]

I still think you answered your own question.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

I still think you answered your own question.

I don't think you understood the question...

 

[varmintshooter]

just curious if anyone using a 223ai FL die notices quite a bit more effort to size compared to other cartridges they FL size. reason I'm asking is, when I use my Redding body die, the effort seems to be twice what's necessary to FL my 6br cases. cases are properly lubed and the press is a Forster Coax. I wonder if it could be that I usually neck size or be because the ai cases are less tapered than a regular 223 case.

When I first got a 223 ack imp I bought a cheap set of Lee fl dies and find them to be the easiest ( needs less pressure to size ) to use than any of my standard dies. I did replace the locking ring before using them.

 

[shoot4fun]

I bought a cheap set of Lee dies but I just don't like the non-threaded decapping rod. Plus, I kept sticking cases in the FL sizer. I've since replaced with a three-die set from Redding.

 

[jepp2]

I load for 2 different 223AI rifles using a body die. I don't keep my brass separate between rifles, and both size very easily in my Redding body die (FL S die with no bushing, so basically the same). I also load for a 22-250AI and they size equally easy.

To me it sounds like your rifle chamber is generous versus your sizing die.

 

[eric n]

I load for 2 different 223AI rifles using a body die. I don't keep my brass separate between rifles, and both size very easily in my Redding body die (FL S die with no bushing, so basically the same). I also load for a 22-250AI and they size equally easy.

To me it sounds like your rifle chamber is generous versus your sizing die.

^^^
I had the same issue (hard sizing). I could only get 12 firings before bolt click was really bad. Bad chamber to die fit.

 

[GrocMax]

Option #3 use a Lee 223 collet die until you actually need to bump shoulder/body.