question about HBN (not about bullet plating)

[queen_stick]

A friend of mine (Jimbo!) gave me some HBN. I understand that it needs to be impact plated on bullets, but there are other applications for it. Here's what I tried with it...

I have some reading dry neck lube (I'm pretty sure it's simply graphite), on the ceramic balls. I used to dip the heel of the bullets in there before seating them, and liked the 'feel' of seating bullets when using the dry lube. The lube/graphite was getting low, and I was pretty much left with ceramic balls in a can, with no lube in there. So, I used a very small amount of HBN and threw it in the ceramic balls. Now I have a "grayish" colored dry lube in the ceramic balls, and my neck tension is flippin' terrible! this stuff is sticky! (creating A LOT of friction). What's up with HBN creating A LOT of tension? It literally felt like the metal (the case or the bullet?) is galling. I haven't used it since the first time I tried it, for obvious reasons.

I'm really just curious what you guys have to say about how I applied it here, and any info on why it didn't work. I expected it to be as slick is the graphite or better, but it wasn't even close.

 

[jo191145]

moly, ws2 and HBN are lubricants only when applied to BOTH surfaces.
In your case I'm assuming you've coated just one surface.

Out of the three I've found HBN really hates the one surface treatment the most.

FWIW Its never a good idea to mix two dry lubes together.

 

[queen_stick]

moly, ws2 and HBN are lubricants only when applied to BOTH surfaces.
In your case I'm assuming you've coated just one surface.

Out of the three I've found HBN really hates the one surface treatment the most.

Noted. thank you!

FWIW Its never a good idea to mix two dry lubes together.

I believe you, and I don't intend to do it again, but I'm curious 'why.' Do they react to one another?

 

[jo191145]

Well, mostly I would say cross contamination can effect the plating process negatively.


I'm not a scientist so keep that in mind.
Its the shape and hardness of the molecules that make these lubes work correctly.
Under a microscope they would look something like shards of glass. Flat and super smooth but with rough or sharp edges.
The plating process makes them lay flat on the bullet.
Burnishing them into a bore with a patch helps also. The first bullet swaged through that bore will finish the process.

Take away any of those processes and you MAY find roughness.
I've used a lot of WS2 with BB's as a dry neck lube. Never had any issues. Coated or naked.
Used WS2 as a bolt dry lube and found it made the bolt ugly but slicker than snot. For a very very long time I might add.

When I first bought a lb of HBN the first thing I did was sprinkle a little on the ram of my press
Really thought I was gonna seize that sucker up
A couple drops of oil and a few strokes and it smoothed up. I learned right then that HBN don't like that kind of foolin around.

 

[queen_stick]

funny you mentioned the press ram, we used some HBN (in spray form) on my press, and it didn't work at all. It made it worse!

I have some Moly and WS2 as well... I'll have to play around with these things to learn which one works best for certain applications. I might have to try WS2 on the bolt... that's interesting. Do you still use it for that, or was it too messy?

 

[BoydAllen]

One thing that I have found WS2 to be good for is burnishing into a powder measure drum, and bore of the measure body casting that it runs in. The first step is to clean both surfaces, finishing with something like alcohol, that leaves the surface dry and residue free, and then I use a old mil surplus patch to buff the material in/onto the surfaces. The measure feels like it has ball bearings, and the lube stays put pretty well and does not attract powder. I have done my SAECOs and Hollywoods with great results.

 

[rain164845]

I tried it on my bolt lugs and the cocking piece and it felt rough.

 

[holstil]

Walt, I think we need to salt bath that press of yours. Dang, that thing is tight!! I have more moly ws2 and hbn if you can find needs.

Regarding making things slick, I was talking to a custom action maker not long ago. I think he told me that they use a nickel teflon plate? that is as hard or harder? and as slick or slicker than the surface of nitriding. I don't know but I felt a friends action and bolt that was teflon coated and that was very nice. Not sure how long it will last though.
I'd like to know depth these coatings are applied to. I think I read Melonite is just a couple a microns thick.

I think there should be a sticky or article about slickness of things and applications including who all does the processed types, feesability and how much. The older I get the more reference I need. I can't remember what are good substrates or media for what products.

Time to google, Jimbo

 

[jo191145]

funny you mentioned the press ram, we used some HBN (in spray form) on my press, and it didn't work at all. It made it worse!

I have some Moly and WS2 as well... I'll have to play around with these things to learn which one works best for certain applications. I might have to try WS2 on the bolt... that's interesting. Do you still use it for that, or was it too messy?

I no longer apply WS2 to the outside of my Savage bolts. Its not really messy just plain ugly. I never tried plating it on just applied.
Mostly with just my finger. Theres just enough oil in the skin to make it adhere. Probably not docter recommended.
I ended up applying it twice. As it wears off on the bearing surfaces you can feel them begin to revert to factory sticky.
A second application did the trick.
Theres a halfway good chance that even though all the excess WS2 has been wiped off for years now its still working somewhat.

Now, on the inside of my Savage bolts is a different story. They've all gotten the WS2 treatment. All the innards run bone dry.
No need to worry about excess oil collecting dirt or carbon etc. Shhhh Triggers too.
Its been at least six years since I've had one open. All still functioning very good.
I just gave it ALL a liberal coating and let the excess go and flow wherever it was needed.

Personally from my expierience I'd be quite wary of trying such a trick with HBN. Even on a Savage. But I think your at that point too.

Custom actions I don't mess with. The less expierimental tinkering I perform on them the better.

 

[queen_stick]

Jo, Thanks for sharing your experience. It sounds like you've tried a lot of the things that I was thinking about trying (I learn the hard way, which is usually the expensive way!). You may have just saved me some money

Jim, I recently read about nickel teflon plating... supposedly, that stuff will 'stay effective" on a bolt for years. I remember reading a thread about that about 2 weeks ago... can't recall what it was called, or where to find it.

I'm new to these fancy 'dry lubes,' so I'm on the upward slope of the learning curve I messed up once, and I'm sure it won't be the last. haha!

Any more input in where these 3 lubes are used (and how they're applied) would be great. (talking about WS2, HBN, and Moly)...

Walt

 

[queen_stick]

rain - I'm glad I've never tried that! if it acted like it did in my neck die, I believe it would actually induce gauling. However it might work well if plated onto the bolt and the action raceways/lugs. I'm really not sure. How did you apply the HBN?

Boyd - your experience and advice are always welcome sir! I use a plastic Lee thrower to get me close, so I can't use that trick (unless you can lube plastic with WS2?) I'm a long range guy, and verify every charge with my Parker-tuned beam. I set the Lee a little low, and trickle up from there, using an AWESOME Targetmaster trickler. Funny you mentioned that though... The Lee thrower used to walk a bit. Now that the internals are 'lubed' with the powder residue (I believe it's some sort of graphite?) it's VERY accurate. If you operate it consistently, it throws very consistent charges. To the point that if I were loading hunting rounds, I wouldn't even double check them. It's amazing what a dry lube can do in a powder measure!

 

[BoydAllen]

Queen_Stick,
What powder are you throwing?

 

[queen_stick]

primarily RL15, however I've run a lot of different things through the thrower. (BLC-2, varget, 82028xbr, RL15, 4831, 4350, 4895, and even pistol powders like Blue Dot, Lil' Gun, Tite group, and etc...)

RL15 is where I've noticed very consistent results, but that's also where I pay the most attention. (currently my go-to powder for my 1k BR gun). Other powders might be worse, and other might be better (in terms of accurate charges directly out of thrower). I really can't say, as I haven't paid that much attention (with the exception of RL15). BLC-2 is interesting... it's so fine, it's like throwing sand