Puzzled by CZ 527 in .17 Hornet

[southern_idaho]

About 3 weeks ago I bought a brand new CZ 527 in .17 Hornet. It is my 2nd rifle chambered for the Hornet - I guess I'm a slow learner - grin.

The first time I went to the range with it - I could not get it on paper at any range. (I never tried point-blank). Decided maybe it was the scope or my mounting job. The scope came off my other .17 Hornet - a Savage Model 25. The scope had always functioned just fine previously.

So I went home and removed the scope. Found that the barrel was not completely free floated. So I free floated the barrel and bedded the recoil lug area in Devcon. When I took the stock off, I found that the factory bedding material was like plain old child's modeling clay. At least that was my impression.

Ok, so I go back to the range today with everything freshly mounted and new enthusiasm. Trying a different scope this time too.
Same thing, I can't even get it on paper. Finally I try the old technique of taking the bolt out and looking down the bore and getting the bore on target. Then try to adjust the scope to get on target. Doing this allowed me to figure out that the scope was pointing a good 6 feet high and to the right of where the barrel was pointing. No wonder I couldn't get it on paper.

I did not have enough adjustment to get the scope low enough to coincide with the point of aim of the bore. Hope that made sense.

I have since kind of cobbled up my own 20 or 30 moa scope base and I am going to set out again tomorrow and see how it goes.

Never in my life have I had a rifle that was so hard to get on target.

Thoughts?

By the way, I bought the CZ because the Savage Model 25 was such a pain in the butt - however, that is a whole 'nother story.

 

[hogpatrol]

Did you clean the ten pounds of gunk in the barrel that some CZs come with? I've bought a couple of their .17HMRs new and it took me hours to get that stuff out. Soak, patch, scrub, patch, soak, scrub many times before it was all removed.

 

[southern_idaho]

Yep. Did that.

 

[hogpatrol]

The rail is an oddball also, 16mm, needs specific rings/bases.

 

[Jeremy(WI)]

The rail is an oddball also, 16mm, needs specific rings/bases.

The rings for mine were included, but only their is only one way to install them, one of the rails has a notch in it and you have to put the right ring on that rail

 

[pacificman]

I bought a CZ527 221 firball and used the supplied rings with no problems. I have not found a load for this rifle yet as powders to try are not available yet. I bore sight all my rifles and have not had a problem like yours. You are right on about bore sighting. Scope has to line up with bore to hit target. I think you have to find the proper rings so that your bore and scope will be lined up with your target. I also have a Savage model 25 in 22 hornet that is one of my best shooters. I was wondering even though it is 17 hornet what kind of problems you had with yours? Let us know how it goes.

 

[southern_idaho]

update: Puzzled by CZ 527 in .17 Hornet

I went back to the range this morning and same result - well maybe a little improvement. I could get it on paper at least at about 10 yards. And that was using a huge sheet of paper - like 24" x 30". It shot high and right I could not get the point of impact to drop more than about 2" at ten yards.

I moved the target out 50 yards and droppped the elevation as far as it would go - adjustment knob bottomed out. I started out with it in the middle of the scope's adjustment range in case you wondered.

Couldn't even see where the bullets were hitting. So out of desperation I shot at a target 100 yards away, this time just watching the target with my eyes - not looking through the scope. The bullet hit about 6 feet high and 2 feet to the right of the target.

I give up. Taking it to my local gunsmith tomorrow and will leave scope and rifle to see if he can make heads or tails of it.

It wasn't a wasted day at the range however; I shot the best group of my life with my .260 Remington this morning.

 

[hogpatrol]

Should have asked this initially but what are the exact rings you are using. It sounds like one is sitting lower or higher and that is causing the gross error in the elevation. Either that or you have a mismatched set of rings, maybe a high and a low? Try switching the front ones to the rear, see if it reverses the POI.

 

[Jeremy(WI)]

Re: update: Puzzled by CZ 527 in .17 Hornet

I went back to the range this morning and same result - well maybe a little improvement. I could get it on paper at least at about 10 yards. And that was using a huge sheet of paper - like 24" x 30". It shot high and right I could not get the point of impact to drop more than about 2" at ten yards.

I moved the target out 50 yards and droppped the elevation as far as it would go - adjustment knob bottomed out. I started out with it in the middle of the scope's adjustment range in case you wondered.

Couldn't even see where the bullets were hitting. So out of desperation I shot at a target 100 yards away, this time just watching the target with my eyes - not looking through the scope. The bullet hit about 6 feet high and 2 feet to the right of the target.

I give up. Taking it to my local gunsmith tomorrow and will leave scope and rifle to see if he can make heads or tails of it.

It wasn't a wasted day at the range however; I shot the best group of my life with my .260 Remington this morning.

Did you get the rings in the box with the rifle? I think it is the front mounting rail that has a groove cut in that has to match the scope mounting ring. I shot a .68 inch 5 round group with my 527 today but it was at 70 yards and I am still happy about it. With the adjustable factory trigger and the fact that I need to get a powder scale that reads 1/100 of a grain instead of 1/10. I am going to have a lot of fun with this little rifle

 

[southern_idaho]

Re: update: Puzzled by CZ 527 in .17 Hornet

Did you get the rings in the box with the rifle? I think it is the front mounting rail that has a groove cut in that has to match the scope mounting ring. I shot a .68 inch 5 round group with my 527 today but it was at 70 yards and I am still happy about it. With the adjustable factory trigger and the fact that I need to get a powder scale that reads 1/100 of a grain instead of 1/10. I am going to have a lot of fun with this little rifle

No I did not get rings with the rifle. Everybody says theirs included rings, but mine did not. I bought Burris rings made for the CZ. I had already decided that I would try to buy some genuine CZ rings, so when I got back home i removed the scope and rings.

I think Hogpatrol called it when he suggested that I might have mismatched rings. Sure enough after taking them off and setting them up on the workbench - I noticed that one is higher than the other. They certainly both came out of the same package, but it seems obvious now they are mismatched.

The Burris "copycat" rings do not have the notch that mates with the dovetail on the CZ rifle. So that's another reason I have decided to get the geniune CZ rings before I try again.

Thanks for all the help and suggestons. I was beginning to think maybe the barrel had a kink in it. ;D

 

[Jeremy(WI)]

Re: update: Puzzled by CZ 527 in .17 Hornet

Did you get the rings in the box with the rifle? I think it is the front mounting rail that has a groove cut in that has to match the scope mounting ring. I shot a .68 inch 5 round group with my 527 today but it was at 70 yards and I am still happy about it. With the adjustable factory trigger and the fact that I need to get a powder scale that reads 1/100 of a grain instead of 1/10. I am going to have a lot of fun with this little rifle

No I did not get rings with the rifle. Everybody says theirs included rings, but mine did not. I bought Burris rings made for the CZ. I had already decided that I would try to buy some genuine CZ rings, so when I got back home i removed the scope and rings.

I think Hogpatrol called it when he suggested that I might have mismatched rings. Sure enough after taking them off and setting them up on the workbench - I noticed that one is higher than the other. They certainly both came out of the same package, but it seems obvious now they are mismatched.

The Burris "copycat" rings do not have the notch that mates with the dovetail on the CZ rifle. So that's another reason I have decided to get the geniune CZ rings before I try again.

Thanks for all the help and suggestons. I was beginning to think maybe the barrel had a kink in it. ;D

Contact your dealer or even CZ, the CZ-USA webpage says that the 527 American ships with 1" steel scope rings
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-527-american/

Ouch, those things are $57 from CZ
http://shop.cz-usa.com/P-19002/Cz-527-1-Rings.aspx

 

[hogpatrol]

We're those Burris rings made in China? The last ones I bought were made there and they're the last pair I buy from them. In China, if quality control is left up to the outsourced company, you're on your own. BTDT.

 

[Bangs OH]

My Burris CZ rings have a locking lug, although I've learned not to trust their stated specs - ring height, screw type, etc. Warne makes some real nice CZ rings if you don't mind the vertical split; had mediums on a 527 with a Calhoon-modified bolt handle that was a perfect setup.
Sorry to hear about your Savage .17HH problems; I feel your pain, as I had one that shot flyers, wouldn't feed, stiff bolt lift, etc. Got rid of mine.
Update:
CZ 527 Varmints don't come with rings, Americans do, btw. (Thought I'd posted this earlier but must have had a "senior moment.")

 

[southern_idaho]

I did order the CZ rings from CZ-USA. They should be here Thursday. Thanks for the great feedback everyone. I still think I am going to have my gunsmith install the rings and scope this time. That way I don't have to think about my frustration and can just move on and shoot something else in the meantime

 

[Ackman]

My 527 is a 17Rem from several years back. Sounds like you have the same problem mine had. It wouldn't zero even with the scope completely maxed on elevation....something you don't want to do. The problem wasn't rings or scope but the action. The ring mounting pads of my action aren't level with each other.......the rear flat is considerably lower than the front. My solution was a pair of short little bases that fit the dovetail and are for Weaver style rings. Then Burris Signature Zee rings which I prefer anyway. Works perfectly now and at zero the scope adjustments are centered nicely. Those bases are sold by a company that supplies 22lr stuff, don't remember the name.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

I also tried the factory CZ rings that came with my 527 221FB. They worked, but marked the scope tube and did not allow low enough mounting. I was using a Lupy with a 40mm objective.

So I ordered a set of James Calhoon's "Hunker" rings.....MUCH better machine work, better fit and finish, and allowed the scope to mount a full 1/8" lower than Leupold, Burris or the factory CZ rings. This arrangement gives a better looking arrangement, and much better cheek weld.



Just sumthin' to consider.

 

[southern_idaho]

I also tried the factory CZ rings that came with my 527 221FB. They worked, but marked the scope tube and did not allow low enough mounting. I was using a Lupy with a 40mm objective.

So I ordered a set of James Calhoon's "Hunker" rings.....MUCH better machine work, better fit and finish, and allowed the scope to mount a full 1/8" lower than Leupold, Burris or the factory CZ rings. This arrangement gives a better looking arrangement, and much better cheek weld.



Just sumthin' to consider.

Nice looking rig - at first glance it looks like a Sako - at least how the Sako's looked 25 years ago or so.

I will keep those Calhoon rings in mind, although it does look like you have to use his modified bolt handle to make them work. But I like the bolt handle too.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[southern_idaho]

My 527 is a 17Rem from several years back. Sounds like you have the same problem mine had. It wouldn't zero even with the scope completely maxed on elevation....something you don't want to do. The problem wasn't rings or scope but the action. The ring mounting pads of my action aren't level with each other.......the rear flat is considerably lower than the front. My solution was a pair of short little bases that fit the dovetail and are for Weaver style rings. Then Burris Signature Zee rings which I prefer anyway. Works perfectly now and at zero the scope adjustments are centered nicely. Those bases are sold by a company that supplies 22lr stuff, don't remember the name.

That's crazy. I bought the CZ to get away from some of the quality control issues I have with my Savage Model 25.

I am still hoping my gunsmith can sort out the CZ when I get the new rings. I can't take another disappointment right now, regarding the CZ - so I am gonna give it to the GS and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

I will keep those Calhoon rings in mind, although it does look like you have to use his modified bolt handle to make them work. But I like the bolt handle too.

That bolt handle and knob came from CRT (CustomReloadingTools.com). It now wears a teardrop knob. CRT has both the bolt handle and various knob configurations available now for the CZ 527's. HTH

 

[southern_idaho]

Update on the CZ .17 Hornet

I just got back from the range after receiving and installing the genuine CZ rings on the rifle.

Finally got the scope and rifle playing nice together. First groups were all under an inch at 100 yards. Not bad for a brand new rifle and the first few shots - finally on paper!

Thanks again to everyone for all the input.