Proposed NRA F-Class Rule Book

[US FTR Team]

I am cross posting this here. The file is too big to upload to this forum. If you are interested in reviewing the proposed F-Class Rule Book, it can be found http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum/index.php?showtopic=15922&st=0&p=116046.

I received it only moments ago and have only briefly reviewed it and do not know if there are changes from the current rules. The NRA Highpower Committee will be voting to accept this on Tuesday December 16th.

Ray Gross

 

[lawman29]

Quick check are changes in classification as follows:

F Open Long Range remains the same.

F Open Mid-Range: HM=98.5+, MA=97-98.49, EX=94.5-96.99, SS=92-94.49 and MM=91.90 & below.

F-TR Mid & Long Range: HM=97+, MA=94-96.99, EX=89-93.99, SS=84-88.99 and MM=83.9 & below

 

[MNFinn]

Quick check are changes in classification as follows:

F Open Long Range remains the same.

F Open Mid-Range: HM=98.5+, MA=97-98.49, EX=94.5-96.99, SS=92-94.49 and MM=91.90 & below.

F-TR Mid & Long Range: HM=97+, MA=94-96.99, EX=89-93.99, SS=84-88.99 and MM=83.9 & below

Gonna have to look at that. I shoot F/TR only, so it looks like I might be able to move up in class on the percentages....assuming I don't mess up and shoot worse this year....improving would be nice too

 

[aj300mag]

Thanks Ray.

I see they limit F-Class to .308" bullet diameter.

 

[M99]

I like those changes and thing they are more reasonable. F-TR is limited to .308 or .223. F-Open allows many more options.

 

[aj300mag]

I like those changes and thing they are more reasonable. F-TR is limited to .308 or .223. F-Open allows many more options.

I'm thinking there's a conflict in the rules. While rule 3-1a states a caliber smaller than .35 for F-Open rule 3.17 Ammunition—No bullet diameter larger than .308 inch (7.62mm) will be used for NRA High Power F-Class Rifle competition. It doesnt differentiate between open and ftr...

 

[coford]

Sections 7.21 and 7.22 need to be reviewed by all. The Long Range National Championship format looks good but the Mid Range still includes the shorter distances. If we want only 600 yard competition then we had better speak up loud and clear - RIGHT NOW!

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

F-TR and F-Open need to be reported separately. Also, all ratings obtained by F-TR shooters are now tossed out. We start all over again.

I've always reported the scores to the NRA separately, but up to now it made no difference.

 

[Immike]

F-TR and F-Open need to be reported separately. Also, all ratings obtained by F-TR shooters are now tossed out. We start all over again.

Why would you start over Deny? It Just got easier, not harder.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

A few observations:

1.The definition of F-Open allows up to 35 caliber, but 3.17 (ammunition) limits caliber to .308
1.I don't like contradictions - one or the other. To me either way works because the caliber is self-limiting.

2.Position is now clearly defined in the F-class rulebook - touching the shoulder. Could be clearer if the intent is to prohibit free-recoil.

3.I like the split classification rules. NRA will need to find a way to make the classifications work for awards. There might be a need for a no-combining F-TR and F-Open rule ( I read fast, might have missed it). I can't imagine the consternation that Expert or Master shooters will have when F-open wins most of the time in the classes...


Last comment:
By using a separate rulebook, we can eliminate some rules confusion. How will the relationship of Highpower (sling) and F-class change? Will we see less combined tournaments? Will F-class find ourselves unwelcome? Will we not welcome sling shooters?

For me, I would always provide for both shooting styles. I think, for the most part, we won't see any change. We still need to consider the question though.

This is being cross-posted -

 

[lawman29]

They don't appear to be tossed out;

"TABLE V
Individual
F-T/R – LONG RANGE AND MID-RANGE
High Master - 97.00% & above
Master - 94.00% - 96.99%
Expert - 89.00%- 93.99%
Sharpshooter - 84.00% - 88.99%
Marksman - 83.9% & below
Current F-T/R competitors holding F-Class classifications will be considered for re-classification based upon F-T/R scores fired and submitted after the adoption of Table V, above."

In other words you can't use your old scores to raise your classification as the standard is proposed to be lowered in F-T/R . You stay where you are at until you shoot some more matches and then you can go up. (You only go down if you petition the NRA to do so - i.e. higher standards in Mid-range F Open).

 

[Erik Cortina]

Here is the rule book for those that have not read it. It will download to your hard drive.

http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=4595

 

[Erik Cortina]

Mid-Range Nationals: All 600 yards.

Address rule 3.17 which limits bullet diameter to .308

10.17.4 (c) If a shooter receives a confirmed cross-fire shot and it is impossible to determine which shot is his, he must be credited with the value of the highest undetermined shot.

Shooter should get the option to take higher shot or take an extra shot. At the FCWC last year, during the team match, we had a cross fire which was a 3. Because of their cross fire, our target was being pulled down when our bullet hit. No one saw it but we had a 2 on target at 12:00 o'clock which should have been a V. The way the rules are written now, we would have to take the 3 and lose 2 points and a V.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

F-TR and F-Open need to be reported separately. Also, all ratings obtained by F-TR shooters are now tossed out. We start all over again.

Why would you start over Deny? It Just got easier, not harder.

I don't like "easier." I realize I am probably the only one holding this view, but being an iconoclast is something with which I am very comfortable.

F-Class is F-class.

When I finally made Master at 1000 yards early this year, I was rather proud of that accomplishment. Now it's going to be diluted, worthless. I can ONLY imagine what must be going through Danny's, Jim's and especially Jade's, Dean's and Rocky's head right now. (If I forgot someone, apologies, I am apoplectic right now, fit to be tied.)

In my opinion, this issue of classification is not a problem and does not need fixing. Classifications should be an accomplishment and High Master should be difficult to reach and the F-TR shooters who make it SHOULD be pleased.

Leave it alone.

 

[Dos XX]

I actually agree with that. I think F/TR is catching up with the classification system. I am not sure how many LR high masters we had before nationals, one or two I think. Two shooters made it at nationals, I think, and four more last weekend. We added six LR high masters in less than 2 months.

I made expert at nationals. Under the new numbers, I would have made master at nationals. I don't feel like I shot master level at nationals. I hope to at the Berger's.

There may be a problem of not having enough HM's at a match to have a HM "division" or "group" or whatever the proper term is, like when you only have 2 experts they get combined with the masters. Is this seen as a problem?

 

[Immike]

F-TR and F-Open need to be reported separately. Also, all ratings obtained by F-TR shooters are now tossed out. We start all over again.

Why would you start over Deny? It Just got easier, not harder.

I don't like "easier." I realize I am probably the only one holding this view, but being an iconoclast is something with which I am very comfortable.

F-Class is F-class.

When I finally made Master at 1000 yards early this year, I was rather proud of that accomplishment. Now it's going to be diluted, worthless. I can ONLY imagine what must be going through Danny's, Jim's and especially Jade's, Dean's and Rocky's head right now. (If I forgot someone, apologies, I am apoplectic right now, fit to be tied.)

In my opinion, this issue of classification is not a problem and does not need fixing. Classifications should be an accomplishment and High Master should be difficult to reach and the F-TR shooters who make it SHOULD be pleased.

Leave it alone.

Of coarse they should be Deny, the people that are in the "Know" are aware of how excellent YOUR shooting has become over the last couple years. I don't even shoot FTR yet I know that you have worked hard and are a serious competitor in the field. Isn't the respect of serious shooters what counts and not just a title? Who understands but your peers what efforts and sacrifice you have been through but the people that share this with you? I have told several up and coming shooters that classification is just a stepping stone or a ladder to self satisfaction that we have done our best. When you put that card back in your wallet after sign up then...Your on your own.

 

[MNFinn]

Interesting reading the comments. Coming in as someone who's relatively new, and doesn't shoot competition much (3 competitions in 3 years, mid range only), at first I was like woohoo! because I would move from MM to SS, but then I thought about it. I'm running an 87% over the course of 220 shots in competition. By the standards of serious shooters, I'm pretty poor at getting things done, but that's on me. I'm content, if not happy with my MM classification, and want to earn SS, EX, and hopefully, some day, Master. I don't want to jump from solidly MM to solidly SS and within striking distance of EX because of a rule change. I want to EARN it. IMHO the ratings, as they are, provide enough difficulty to make people earn their classification, but loose enough that a new guy like me can see that the next level is within reach, with practice.

I say, leave them be, for now. Or, maybe, make Open more difficult, and leave TR where it is. confession, that's just because I don't want it raised when I feel I could make SS this year, with more trigger time

Sorry for the longer read

Erik

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

F-TR and F-Open need to be reported separately. Also, all ratings obtained by F-TR shooters are now tossed out. We start all over again.

Why would you start over Deny? It Just got easier, not harder.

I don't like "easier." I realize I am probably the only one holding this view, but being an iconoclast is something with which I am very comfortable.

F-Class is F-class.

When I finally made Master at 1000 yards early this year, I was rather proud of that accomplishment. Now it's going to be diluted, worthless. I can ONLY imagine what must be going through Danny's, Jim's and especially Jade's, Dean's and Rocky's head right now. (If I forgot someone, apologies, I am apoplectic right now, fit to be tied.)

In my opinion, this issue of classification is not a problem and does not need fixing. Classifications should be an accomplishment and High Master should be difficult to reach and the F-TR shooters who make it SHOULD be pleased.

Leave it alone.

+1,000,000. Leave it the F*** alone!!! Master at 94%??? Are you serious??? That's an insult to those whom have earned it the hard way. Why don't we just call everyone that shows up "Master" and be done with any classification at all?

This is a case of trying to fix a scoring system that isn't broken. Have you noticed that the number of F-Open cleans with high X-counts are becoming more common? Cleans have been recorded in F-TR as well. It doesn't matter whether Open and F-TR use the same scoring system, at the end of the day, they're not competing with each other. If anything, the cutoffs should be made more difficult, not less, because scores are only getting better with time.

We the new high masters as of last weekend totally agree with you. Actually all the competitors that I talked to agreed. With leaving it alone. My goal for the Arizona regionals, Nationals, 29 palms regional, Arizona Long range Championships, and Arizona Palma Championships was to get my master card. I ended up getting my High master card. I only got my card because I set a goal!!! Oh and changed my load after the nationals.

Dean, Scott and myself had a conversation at the end of the match. Where I did the math and told them that we all made High Master. I think we were all in shock. But very happy.

 

[M99]

There is very little in common between F-Open and F-TR. Nearly all F-Open shooters shoot 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm bullets in 22 pound rifles, using very solid and heavy front rests, and free recoil. They are basically shooting light BR lying down. F-TR means shooting a very poor long range bullet, (by comparison) with an 18 pound rifle, off a Bi-Pod, where free recoil is nearly impossible. Its basically a heavy tactical rifle. The only commonality is using a scope and some sort of front rest rather than a sling. It makes no sense to me to score them together or classify them together. Most F-Class Masters and High Masters, got their rating by shooting F-Open, even if they then shoot F-TR.

 

[ARIZONA_F_CLASS]

Interesting reading the comments. Coming in as someone who's relatively new, and doesn't shoot competition much (3 competitions in 3 years, mid range only), at first I was like woohoo! because I would move from MM to SS, but then I thought about it. I'm running an 87% over the course of 220 shots in competition. By the standards of serious shooters, I'm pretty poor at getting things done, but that's on me. I'm content, if not happy with my MM classification, and want to earn SS, EX, and hopefully, some day, Master. I don't want to jump from solidly MM to solidly SS and within striking distance of EX because of a rule change. I want to EARN it. IMHO the ratings, as they are, provide enough difficulty to make people earn their classification, but loose enough that a new guy like me can see that the next level is within reach, with practice.

I say, leave them be, for now. Or, maybe, make Open more difficult, and leave TR where it is. confession, that's just because I don't want it raised when I feel I could make SS this year, with more trigger time

Sorry for the longer read

Erik

Erik, No apologies necessary! Your a true competitor!