Prometheus powder dispenser or something else?

[Erud]

I don’t know if I can say that I “need” it, but if I can buy a (relatively) inexpensive tool that will consistently deliver that level of accuracy and consistency all by itself in under 10 seconds per charge while I do other tasks, I’m darned sure going to take advantage of it.

 

[RegionRat]

I'm all for accuracy and consistency but do you really need .02 gr consistency? Does it make a noticeable difference over a .1 gr throw consistency?

Are the benchrest shooters using them?

I agree with @Erud . I used to have access to Prometheus machines but at home I ran two ChargeMasters.

One Autothrow/Autotrickler has out performed them in terms of work flow and time, so as Erud said I can focus on other things and with far less fatigue, while not having a second thought as to how much error margin I am assigning to powder charge levels.

When the Bluetooth app came out, it made doing load evaluations a breeze, so it became more than just a volume tool, it gets used for everything. I even have a method where I just use the thrower and not trickle to make Prairie Dog distance loads. The rig is structured over the scale anyway, so any reject throw just goes back in the hopper and the system is nearly as fast as blind throws.

It is very hard to argue with better/faster/cheaper when compared to alternatives or Prometheus which is the only real alternative to date that is better.

As for is it really necessary to hit 0.02 grains.... no it isn't (and no it doesn't really).

But do keep in mind that it is faster with fewer reject throws, and actually holds a range of less than 0.1 grains over a day of loading several hundred rounds. A ChargeMaster is not really +/-0.1, it would be a range of 0.3 grains over a whole day of several hundred but takes more discipline to achieve. So it is about a factor of three better in accuracy and about 30% faster when using two matched cups.

We are not really discussing the width of tuning nodes, but I do agree that many nodes are wide enough to allow for plain old thrown charges without even trickling or weighing. But when it comes to making several hundred >600 yard loads at a sitting, we are thinking along the lines of multi-day matches or distant hunting trips, so operator fatigue takes a priority. In that context, the ChargeMaster is good enough for many but my testing showed a significant improvement at 1000 yards using the Autothrow/Autotrickler so to each their own. YMMV.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I'm all for accuracy and consistency but do you really need .02 gr consistency? Does it make a noticeable difference over a .1 gr throw consistency?

Are the benchrest shooters using them?

What i use is what is viable to use at the range. I load at the range, period. I use a ChargemasterLite. For years I simply used a regular thrower.

But I am a short range Benchrest Shooter. That is a different game from Long Range Benchrest,

one thing that puzzles me is all of these shooters who want to weigh powder down to the nearest 1/100 grn are usually shooting semi custom bullets that have a lot more built in variables than the charge Pushing it.

 

[PigButtons]

I'm all for accuracy and consistency but do you really need .02 gr consistency? Does it make a noticeable difference over a .1 gr throw consistency?

Are the benchrest shooters using them?

The answer is: It depends.
I shoot a lot of 22K Hornet and because of the small charge size, so yes it matters. When I load for .308 , not nearly as important.

 

[ronemus]

That is a great perspective. Thank you for sharing that.

does the auto trickler perform well with all powder shapes? I have found that the charge master I use does not work as well with all powder shapes/sizes.

I've used the FX-120i/AutoThrow/AutoTrickler extensively with Reloder-33, which is a pretty chunky powder. I routinely get +/-0 02 gr charges, which is astonishing given that a single granule of RL-33 is 0.04 gr! Perhaps once in 100-200 charges 2 granules will drop at the end and I'll end up with a charge 0.04 gr over; I just keep tweezers handy so I can remove a granule and fill the case. Almost any other powder is going to be easier to work with due to smaller grain size, so I would call precision of +/-0.02 gr a realistic claim.

There are a number of Extreme Long Range shooters who use the AutoTrickler, and some of them have tested whether charges weighed to the single granule make a difference; they conclude that it does. A very few have popped for the Sartorius Entris/AutoThrow setup which is capable of even better performance; the balance can measure to 0.001 gr, but charge variation will be limited by the powder granule size. I haven't seen any data that convinces me that charge variations that small matter, but some are apparently convinced that it does.

 

[Switchbarrel]

The SuperTrickler looks pretty slick. Curious to see the final iteration when/if it gets released next
year.


Like someone above, I have a Gen II Prometheus, bought it before the Autotrickler & Autothrow came out. Spent the money and don't miss it one bit. Made my life much easier. Still use it as my primary powder thrower/measure. No bouncing powder kernels to worry about.

I've also got the A&D FX-120i and V3 Autotrickler. I don't have the Autothrow. I throw with my Harrell's and let the AT top it off. I mostly just use this when I'm doing a bunch of different charges for Ladder/Pressure testing (whatever you want to call it). For this, the Bluetooth makes changing charges easier.

Being a cheapskate at heart, if I were buying today I would probably buy the AT/AT/FX-120i setup. Not because I think it's better but, just to save some money initially. I've had the A&D FX scale a few years less than the Prometheus but, already had to send it in for repair. The circuit board went out pretty quickly. Fortunately it was still under warranty (not any longer) and I live close enough to drive it to the factory. I only use the thing a couple times a year. Buy a few $600 or $1000+ scales and the savings diminishes.

 

[Hengehold]

The SuperTrickler looks pretty slick. Curious to see the final iteration when/if it gets released next
year.


Like someone above, I have a Gen II Prometheus, bought it before the Autotrickler & Autothrow came out. Spent the money and don't miss it one bit. Made my life much easier. Still use it as my primary powder thrower/measure. No bouncing powder kernels to worry about.

I've also got the A&D FX-120i and V3 Autotrickler. I don't have the Autothrow. I throw with my Harrell's and let the AT top it off. I mostly just use this when I'm doing a bunch of different charges for Ladder/Pressure testing (whatever you want to call it). For this, the Bluetooth makes changing charges easier.

Being a cheapskate at heart, if I were buying today I would probably but the AT/AT/FX-120i setup. Not because I think it's better but, just to save some money initially. I've had the A&D FX scale a few years less than the Prometheus but, already had to send it in for repair. The circuit board went out pretty quickly. Fortunately it was still under warranty (not any longer) and I live close enough to drive it to the factory. I only use the thing a couple times a year. Buy a few $600 or $1000+ scales and the savings diminishes

It sounds like you have not had any mechanical issues or wearing out of parts on your Prometheus. Is this correct?

 

[Switchbarrel]

It sounds like you have not had any mechanical issues or wearing out of parts on your Prometheus. Is this correct?

That is correct, not a single problem yet. It is electro-mechanical and I’m realistic…something is bound to break or wear out at some point.

That said, I’ve thrown a few thousand charges and it still looks and works good as new.

 

[clowdis]

I have 2 friends that have a Prometheus and they are both well into hundreds of thousands or rounds loaded with them and as far as I know neither have given any serious problems. Kent R. has had his for probably over 20 years and John F. for 10 years. However, isn't there something about you aren't supposed to resell it unless you sell it back to Brand?

 

[Erud]

Blair,
Historically, the Prometheus has always been a lease. You sign a contract with Brand when you get it that you won’t re-sell it, use it for commercial purposes, etc. Technically, he owns it and you have to give it back at the end, but I’m not sure how that works in reality. He does now have a purchase option for an additional $1500 over the lease price.

 

[Hengehold]

Blair,
Historically, the Prometheus has always been a lease. You sign a contract with Brand when you get it that you won’t re-sell it, use it for commercial purposes, etc. Technically, he owns it and you have to give it back at the end, but I’m not sure how that works in reality. He does now have a purchase option for an additional $1500 over the lease price.

All of those restrictions seem like a deal breaker to me. If I buy something I expect to do whatever I want with it.

 

[tvaught]

All of those restrictions seem like a deal breaker to me. If I buy something I expect to do whatever I want with it.

Those restrictions are if you lease the Prometheus from Brand. He offers lease, lease to buy, and of course a straight sales full ownership options.

The units that are owned outright are listed on his website.

 

[rtatro]

So, FWIIW - and yes, I know Dave Christian is correct when he says this is not statistically significant - but I did a side-by-side chrono test of .284 Shehane loaded in the same session/conditions with identically prep'd brass, bullets, etc. where one group of 15 was with N165 thrown on the Prometheus and the other group of 15 was thrown by the Autotrickler. I alternated between groups as I shot them. The Prometheus group had a lower ES (and more X's at 600 yards) than the Autotrickler group. But both groups shot well. I don't think you will go wrong with either setup.

 

[divingin]

one thing that puzzles me is all of these shooters who want to weigh powder down to the nearest 1/100 grn are usually shooting semi custom bullets that have a lot more built in variables than the charge Pushing it.

Might be a matter of controlling what you can. For instance, it's probably easier to ensure consistent charges than to mic out and weigh every bullet (though I suspect there are those who do that as well.)

I should add that I'm not a competition shooter. I do, however, try to get my charges consistent (not necessarily accurate) for a given days loadout. It removes one source of variance that I don't have to worry about.