Prometheus Measure/Dispenser

[canderson]

Hi,
I have heard nothing but great things about this device. Can someone please give me a little more information on the unit. I would like to see a picture if someone wouldbe nice enough to post it. Does anyone have any contact information on Brand Cole or if the units are still produced? Thanks in advance.

 

[mikecr]

I don't see it offering anything over a Chargemaster. It certainly would not be as easy to use, no more accurate than useful, and is incredibly more expensive.

 

[Steve Blair]

The price does not seem justified. My approach is to place a Chargemaster next to an Acculab VIC 123 and use the following procedure.

1. Zero the Acculab with the Chargemaster's pan.
2. Set the Chargemaster to .2 grains light.
3. Run a charge and place the pan on the Acculab.
4. Trickle to weight.
5. Dump the charge into a case.
6. Place the empty pan back on the Acculab to check zero. If it deviates, weigh the charge again.
7. Rinse, lather, repeat.

Works for me. You could also substitute a powder measure for the Chargemaster at the price of a little more fiddling.

 

[butchlambert]

Steve and Mikecr,
I don't think either of you have used one of Brand Coles powder throwers. His is way above the products you are speaking of. Is it worth it, I can't answer that, but I can say that I don't think anything out there can touch the accuracy of his device. I have seen it in operation at a match.
Butch

 

[Steve Blair]

Butch,

I was not commenting on the quality or accuracy of the Prometheus, only the value proposition. It is hard to see that it could have an accuracy of better than ±.02 grain. By my experiments, .02 produces ~1 fps variance. So, even if the accuracy was better, would it produce a better result? Like Gunamonth, I am not particularly cost encumbered. I just like to get good value.

Following is German Salazar's amusing comment on the Prometheus.

In Greek mythology, Prometheus stole fire from Zeus and gave it to mortals. For this, he was punished by being bound to a large rock while an eagle ate his liver - every day.

I used a Prometheus powder measure for a few months and concluded that it was only slightly less taxing than Prometheus' sentence. I was glad to see it gone.

 

[mikecr]

Extremes must sway into diminshed to reach their edge.

For many years I've thrown low & trickled to weight.
It's great that someone integrated this tried & true method.
And of those who have, I have to stand by ChargeMaster.

It does all I need quickly, conveniently, and as accurate as significant for my cartridges. Yes, I've 'tuned' it/modified it to get there.
Out of the box, a CM is not as accurate as a Prometheus. Mine probably isn't still..
But if given a Prometheus for free, I would not replace MY ChargeMaster with it.
I'd try the Prometheus. I'd love the build & fun of it. But once that wore off, I'd go back to CM -for the sheer practicality of it.

Same with scopes. If given a March 60x, or 80x, I'd have a ball trying it on my favorite guns. Googling over the glass.
But in the end it would end up on a shelf with Mk4s comfortably back on my guns.
Extremes are just not as good -overall.

 

[Will]

Got a chance this past weekend to see the new Prometheus at another shooters house. I didn't even know there was a newer model ... I was impressed and if you are looking to take as many variables out of your reloads ... this would help. I saw that the trickler & scale could indicate & SHOW a Change of ONE KERNEL !

For some shooters that is what they need for me I was just impressed. As an earlier post stated, it is in the area / level of March scopes and other high dollar top end gear. Nice to see & read about but way above my pay grade !!

I am going to take the friends offer an have him load some for me. I provide all the components .. meanwhile I'll be toiling over my 1st Gen chargemaster. Hopefully i can get to the range sooner than later to see if there really is a difference !!!

 

[dreever]

I throw my charges a little light with my Harrells then trickle up on my Denver Instruments MXX123. Sure it takes me a bit longer but like the others I get .02 accuracy. Is the Big P. faster? Probably. Is it more accurate? Maybe. Would I be able to see it on the target in the real world? I doubt it when you combine all the other variables including the human one.

Danny

 

[Steve Blair]

You are right, Danny. All that matters is what goes in the case. I am not sure that it takes you any longer, a measure is pretty fast. The only aspect that made me retire my old Redding was fiddling with the settings. Plus, I am a sucker for gadgets.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

I have been using just the CM, but often wonder about its accuracy. I like the idea of the process you are following throwing short with the CM then tricking up with the scale.

So, you guys that are tricking into the DI or Acculab, what tricklers are you using?? Also, where do you get a DI scale??

Also, what are they sitting on - meaning a piece of marble, etc? Its been a while since I read about them, but how about them floating, and reducing the sensitivity??

Thanks so much!

 

[Steve Blair]

I use an ancient RCBS "analog" trickler that has been working well for over 30 years. The Chargemaster sits on a 2" thick Sugar Maple block, mostly for unloading convenience. The Acculab sits on a granite slab. They are also both connected to an APC power conditioner. Only incandescent light in the reloading room and my cell phone stays in my office. It took a little while to learn all the digital oddities but the system is now stable and reliable.

 

[butchlambert]

So I need a 2" slab of wood or a piece of granite to take to the range to get a good measurement on my powder. I believe the original question was not about value or how good your Walmart powder throwers work. I believe my answer said I couldn't place a value on Brand's product or whatever. It is as accurate or better than the Walmart's mounted on granite. Did David Tubb hire him because he was a dummy?
Butch

 

[Steve Blair]

Well, I did not buy the Acculab or the Chargemaster at Walmart, Butch. If I had, what difference would that make? Responding like that seems uncharacteristic. Bad day? I certainly would not disparage your products that way and you know I own some. Your gracious wife certainly did not have that tone when taking my order.

As I said, the maple is primarily for unloading convenience and I had both it and the granite 12X12 tile. Home Depot sells them for less than $10. The maple was a remainder from building the bench on which it sits. The attached image shows the various items as I employ them.

I do not load at the range so that is not a consideration. If you say it is an advantage, it probably is. I have never seen anyone load at a Highpower match. The original poster also said nothing about loading at the range.

No, I do not think Brand Cole is a dummy, I do not know the man. I do respect David Tubb as an innovator and shooter. If he hired Mr. Cole, he probably had a good reason. I also respect German Salazar as a shooter and commentator. He did not like the Prometheus. I am certain that you know what opinions are like.

I think it best if I do not comment further on this topic. I hope that someone can be of more help to the original poster.

 

[stiles]

The Prometheus II for your viewing pleasure.

 

[mikecr]

I think that Butch is poking us about all the extra measures taken to get performance from our CMs. Afterall, an out of the box CM truly is not in the same league as Prometheus.
It's our continuing efforts that got us there.
I think it's a fair view.

If I had to use a seperate scale, and seperate trickler, and power conditioners, granite blocks, or wind screens, I would see the Prometheus as a godsend.
But I don't have to. I used an Acculab initially to tune my CM with an adjustable speed mod, then I sold the Acculab. The mod worked well enough that I no longer question the charge, and this is how it should have come out of the box. Right?
But given the cost and availability of CM over Prometheus, there is just no question in my mind that the CM was a fortunate option.

 

[butchlambert]

I stand by what I posted. He asked about the Prometheus and not about the others. I don't care what your Walmart throwers will do. That was not his question. If you go to a match and check with the guys you will find several had to send theirs back[Chargemasters] because of problems. Some of them up to 3 times. In a match situation I have not seen them throw within .2grn on a consistant basis.
Butch

 

[GermanS1]

Stiles, thanks for posting that You Tube video of the Prometheus II. I can see that a lot of changes have been made from the one I used some years ago and they are for the better.

Personally, I'm still satisfied with the performance I get by manually trickling into an Ohaus Navigator scale which has resolution of 0.05 gr., not the 0.02 gr. of many of the current offerings.

We each have things that we get a bit obsessive about and tools with which we're comfortable. I'm sure there are those for whom the Prometheus (either version) is a source of great satisfaction and I don't mean to be disparging of that and I'm afraid my earlier comment may have come off that way.

One thing I'm always trying to get across to newer shooters, however, is that you can get to the very top of this sport with relatively simple equipment. An RCBS measure, a trickler and an RCBS/Ohaus 10-10 mechanical scale will produce Camp Perry winning ammo. Everything else should be evaluated on increased speed or convenience because it's hard to improve on accuracy as long as one is trickling and weighing. If you can justify an expense on those grounds (or sheer mechanical lust) then enjoy it, if not, don't feel second rate.

 

[Steve Blair]

I stand by what I posted. He asked about the Prometheus and not about the others. I don't care what your Walmart throwers will do. That was not his question. If you go to a match and check with the guys you will find several had to send theirs back[Chargemasters] because of problems. Some of them up to 3 times. In a match situation I have not seen them throw within .2grn on a consistant (sic) basis.
Butch

He also did not ask about using it at a match. I also stand by what I said earlier; I have never seen anyone load at a Highpower match. If you say they do at whatever matches you attend, I assume it is true. So, it seems that you are imposing your own prejudice and attributing it to the original poster. Use whatever you like. At my income level, I can certainly afford any known powder measuring device but find the present combination works for me. I never said that it would meet anyone's needs but mine.

German's comment is correct, too. I reloaded for years with a Redding measure and an Ohaus 10-10.

 

[butchlambert]

Hey guys,
Steve is a buddy and I think that I will go no further with this. I have too much respect for him. I think we agree a lot more than disagree. Sometimes it is just the internet itself that causes the problems. You can say "Hey A Hole" at a match to a buddy and it is OK, but it looks different in print.
Butch

 

[butchlambert]

Well whatever! I do have opinions. I won't back off from that.
Butch