Product test on Winchester StaBALL 6.5

[riflewoman]

A temp sensitivity test

 

[AJC]

I find it odd that companies leave all the data collection and testing to us. From initial indications I dont see anything special here other than it may be more stable than other ball powders. It would be interesting to see it compared to Tac. Big thumbs up to Jrb for the data.

 

[RegionRat]

Agree, John did a nice job considering he had to make up his own temperature testing procedure.
We had some below zero mornings here for the elk season in NW Colorado, so I wish he had come closer to Mil-Specs for temperature ranges. Something like -20 F would be a better low end, and along the lines of +140 for the high end. That said, many thanks to John for the test and video.

 

[riflewoman]

The Mil spec for 7.62 NATO M80 ball tests at -65F, 70F, and 125F.

The velocity average at 70 has to be 2750 +/- 30fps. This means that the average velocity of each lot can be anywhere between 2720 and 2780.
The velocity at the 125F and -65F are acceptable if the average velocity is +150 and -250 fps (I presume respectively but it does not specify) of the average velocity established in the 70F test. 40 cartridges are tested at each temperature.

This means that Johnny is very much on the right track. While 33F may be a bit high for a low end, getting to -65 requires a very expensive cooler or cryogenic liquids. I did recommend to him in a comment to his video that dry ice and alcohol can get him down to 0F or so.

 

[Fast14riot]

The Mil spec for 7.62 NATO M80 ball tests at -65F, 70F, and 125F.

The velocity average at 70 has to be 2750 +/- 30fps. This means that the average velocity of each lot can be anywhere between 2720 and 2780.
The velocity at the 125F and -65F are acceptable if the average velocity is +150 and -250 fps (I presume respectively but it does not specify) of the average velocity established in the 70F test. 40 cartridges are tested at each temperature.

This means that Johnny is very much on the right track. While 33F may be a bit high for a low end, getting to -65 requires a very expensive cooler or cryogenic liquids. I did recommend to him in a comment to his video that dry ice and alcohol can get him down to 0F or so.

Dry ice and alcohol can maintain a liquid solution of -77°C (-107°F).

 

[DocBII]

A temp sensitivity test

riflewoman,

Can you post the data itself? Youtube video is blocked by browser extensions.

Concur with Fast14riot on the low temp solution, it was used to test solid rocket propellants.

Thanks,
DocBII

 

[AJC]

The Mil spec for 7.62 NATO M80 ball tests at -65F, 70F, and 125F.

The velocity average at 70 has to be 2750 +/- 30fps. This means that the average velocity of each lot can be anywhere between 2720 and 2780.
The velocity at the 125F and -65F are acceptable if the average velocity is +150 and -250 fps (I presume respectively but it does not specify) of the average velocity established in the 70F test. 40 cartridges are tested at each temperature.

This means that Johnny is very much on the right track. While 33F may be a bit high for a low end, getting to -65 requires a very expensive cooler or cryogenic liquids. I did recommend to him in a comment to his video that dry ice and alcohol can get him down to 0F or so.

If were talking about a scientific test or milspec then more ridged standards may be required. I felt like his test was very practical in nature and covered most competition temperatures. People may shoot competition in the dead of winter but they would do a lot of work up for that special case. This is in no way critical of anyone, I just really appreciate his efforts.

 

[riflewoman]

riflewoman,

Can you post the data itself? Youtube video is blocked by browser extensions.

Concur with Fast14riot on the low temp solution, it was used to test solid rocket propellants.

Thanks,
DocBII

Best I can do. They are L-R StaBALL, 414, H4350, RL17

 

[DocBII]

riflewoman,

Thanks for the data.

DocBII

 

[Ned Ludd]

According to the velocity/temperature data I have gathered myself, as well as anecdotal information scoured from the internet over the years, these testing values would seem to place the Staball 6.5 approximately halfway in between one of the absolute best temperature-resistant powders known (H4350) at the low end of the temperature/velocity spectrum, and more typical double base powders at the high end of the spectrum. It's worth noting that a number of supposedly "temperature-resistant" single base powders would likely fall into about the same range as the Staball 6.5, or maybe just a tick under. Frankly, I'm surprised the velocity spread for the Staball is as good as it is, given what they were actually trying to accomplish.

So it seems as if someone was expecting the temperature-resistance of Varget or H4350 with this new powder, its simply not going to be that good. But it should fall within the range of some of the slightly more temperature-sensitive single-base powders, and well below the temperature sensitivity expected a typical double base powder. If it also delivers higher velocities as advertised, it ought to gain a lot of popularity.

 

[granite1]

If you’re shooting at -65f YOU ARE NUTS!

 

[riflewoman]

The military have to fire ammunition after being cold soaked in -65F air at altitude. It is likely that 7.62 Ammo will never get that cold but ammo used in aircraft does, hence the test requirement.

 

[ToddKS]

The appeal of this powder for me is the potential to drop reasonably accurate charges so that I can load my PRS ammo on my Dillon 1050. I am willing to live with some temp variance if I can make ammo on a progressive machine.

 

[xswanted]

Great test in my opinion. It showed valuable data and was done well.

For my personal use, I’d like to see the test done from 40 degrees down to -20. the only reason is those are the most common temps I hunt in.

I may have to set up a test and see what I get.

 

[mktacop]

Very informative. I'm going to have to get some of the Sta-Ball and test it myself.

 

[urbanrifleman]

These tests are exactly what is needed.

It's just a matter of time until more people start testing these powders and the truth will be revealed...

And I think the truth is far from the marketing in many cases.

 

[AckleymanII]

+1

 

[johara1]

I don't know about this but in my testing with everything at the same temperature gun ammo and me,H4350 and Varget and H4895 all dropped 1fps per degree from 60 degrees to 40 degrees. .... jim

 

[stavey]

I’ll make it work it meters on my 650 perfectly. I have a family so that means less time loading individually and more time shooting or anything for that matter. I will be testing next week but from what I’m seeing it will be perfect for my 6.5 Creedmoor loads . Just got my 6.5 conversion kit for my mr. Bulletfeeder. Now I can really crank them out.
Loading each round individually has always been the biggest downfall of the 6.5 in my opinion. Now all that is changing. StaBALL will hopefully push other companies to develop similar ball powders.

 

[ToddKS]

I’ll make it work it meters on my 650 perfectly. I have a family so that means less time loading individually and more time shooting or anything for that matter. I will be testing next week but from what I’m seeing it will be perfect for my 6.5 Creedmoor loads . Just got my 6.5 conversion kit for my mr. Bulletfeeder. Now I can really crank them out.
Loading each round individually has always been the biggest downfall of the 6.5 in my opinion. Now all that is changing. StaBALL will hopefully push other companies to develop similar ball powders.

This.

If this powder is reasonably temp stable that is going to be good enough for me. I am willing to learn the temp curve and adjust my load to the time of year if needed.

I shoot PRS. Everyone I know who is changing to this powder for 2020 is doing so in order to enable them to load their ammo on a progressive press. I am already doing all of my sizing on an autodrive 1050. Staball should allow me to load on my 1050 as well. That will turn hours of work into minutes. Just having the cases fed through a case feeder is a game changer. I am even willing to accept some performance degrade if it allows for progressive ammo.

I don't expect this powder to be H4350. I might actually choose to load H4350 for bigger matches depending on how the Staball performs. All I need this powder to do is make decently consistent ammo that I can shoot in practice and at local matches. If I get more than that, it is just a bonus.