Primers, can they make a differance?

[andybrock]

Can primer choice make any noticeable differance to a group size?

I'm thinking mainly for the 22br whether it's CCI BR4's or 450's or Federal 205M's.

 

[357Mag]

Andy -

Howdy !

Yes..... they sure can !

Once you'e decided on bullet, powder/charge, seating depht & neck tension; try shooting groups w/ different primers. Don't be suprised if one out-performs the rest.

Watch out for any signs of excessive pressure .


With regards,
357Mag

 

[bheadboy]

++1pm the answer, I have seen small and major changes with only a primer change.

Bob

 

[Terry]

Changing primers can require a change in powder load to stay in tune.
Expect to adjust your powder load for best results.

 

[amlevin]

Changing primers can require a change in powder...... Expect to adjust your powder load for best results.

+1... or your only discovering which primer best suites one charge level, and not necessarily the best primer.

Donovan

Don't overlook the fact that the most expensive primer(s) may not necessarily be the best ones.

Most of our local BR shooters don't even use the BR series primers, merely standard primers. A lot also use the Wolf/Tula primers as well which for a long time were 1/3 the price of CCI BR-x primers.

 

[watercam]

When loading Lapua .308 Palma brass for Long Range competition I compared CCI400s to Fed 205Ms and saw no difference in ES, SD or accuracy. When I tried the Tula SR I had better numbers but not by much - SD of 6 w/ Tulas vs. 8 w/ 400s. When using LR primers in the same caliber my SDs with Tulas were more consistent and accurate than Fed 210Ms or CCI 200s. SD of 8 w/ Tulas vs. 12 w/ the others.
Winchester and Remington primers were hotter and raised velocities by 20-30 fps. This is not to say they were not accurate, just hotter. German Salazar did extensive testing of these and other primers for his blog and had some excellent accuracy at 600 yds. with Win. LR and Fed.215s in non-magnum cartridge. The SDs were not indicative of the accuracy potential in those cases.
Google German Salazar Rifleman's Journal and look through his articles for both large and small primer comparison. Interesting reading.

 

[savagedasher]

Primers are the same as spark plugs are to a engine. Yes the can and do make a difference. Finding the best for your reloads is all part of tuning a gun. Larry

 

[hogan]

Oh yeah, primer selection will make a difference.

CCI 450 is a small rifle magnum primer, ain't it? Not getting up to look; but their 400 is the standard sm rifle number. Magnum primer going to have a more intense flame than either of the match primers you listed. The idea, as I understand it, is to ignite powder charge with least disruption to the powder charge. Primer that displaces powder changes the burn, unless your charge is 95% of case capacity or compressed.

So many variables...

I did have a batch of CCI 400 primers that would not ignite in new Starline .454 Casull cases. Starline is pretty reknowned for uniformity aspects of their primer pockets, like Lap you uh; but in handgun brass world. When them 400s wouldn't ignite after 2 or even 4 hammer strikes from Super Redhawk at a rate of 60% or better, it soured me on CCI. Never thought I'd need to "test" a lot of 1,000 primers just to ascertain ignition... On a self-defense woods handgun, in Alaska, you'd best Be Sure it will go BANG!

From that point on, have never bought another CCI primer, but there is a story involving non-customer service that goes with that decision.....

Rather fond of the Remington 7-1/2 primer for AR-15 match quality ammunition. Might be problematic if you have something like a lightweight firingpin spring installed. Maybe some are tuning springs to get light strikes? Never know? Prevailing thought was always heavy spring rate for fastest locktime, but who knows who is doing what these days...

Might consult the board over at benchrest central and see what primer those guys are touting these days. No longer is there a Precision Shooting resource that will publish some in depth detail on what the champs were doing for ammo prep in winning their last season crowns...

For sure need to become LOT # conscious, because any batch of primers will vary by lot #. Keeping a log book in your loading den? Recording them lot #s? Can NEVER have too much info when you start a rat-killing effort to iron down all the variables...

Lots ain't been mentioned. Broaching your flash holes? Uniforming primer pockets? Checking seating depth? Really need to be doing EVERYTHING to isolate the variables BEFORE you go auditioning primers with the inherent barrel wear. Smart thing to do is to go with what the bench guys are choosing and then work every angle on your handloading and shooting techniques. Have a good rate of fill with a good powder. Pretty hard to go wrong with Sierra Accuracy Loads, from their manual, as a starting point. Might even call their tech guys and chat them up about prevailing wisdom on primer selection. No need to reinvent the wheel if all you want is a set of tires.

 

[amlevin]

Smart thing to do is to go with what the bench guys are choosing

If people actually did this then CCI BR primer sales would probably go in the toilet. I'd wager that most of their BR primer sales are to NON-BR shooters.

 

[tenring]

Smart thing to do is to go with what the bench guys are choosing

If people actually did this then CCI BR primer sales would probably go in the toilet. I'd wager that most of their BR primer sales are to NON-BR shooters.

And most all BR guys rely on the Federal 205M primers.

 

[johnmyers]

Try finding Federal 205m primers now. I talked to Federal this week and asked them why the shortage and was told they aren't making them now and their main interest is their ammo business. This happened a few years ago with their 210m. I will adjust loads if needed and never buy Federal primers again. They won't support the shooters who have supported them in the past.

 

[JRS]

Try finding Federal 205m primers now. I talked to Federal this week and asked them why the shortage and was told they aren't making them now and their main interest is their ammo business. This happened a few years ago with their 210m. I will adjust loads if needed and never buy Federal primers again. They won't support the shooters who have supported them in the past.

Use the 205. There is no actual difference between it and the M. They are also available.

 

[johnmyers]

Try finding Federal 205m primers now. I talked to Federal this week and asked them why the shortage and was told they aren't making them now and their main interest is their ammo business. This happened a few years ago with their 210m. I will adjust loads if needed and never buy Federal primers again. They won't support the shooters who have supported them in the past.

Use the 205. There is no actual difference between it and the M. They are also available.

Why use anything from Federal if they won't make what we want

 

[JRS]

Try finding Federal 205m primers now. I talked to Federal this week and asked them why the shortage and was told they aren't making them now and their main interest is their ammo business. This happened a few years ago with their 210m. I will adjust loads if needed and never buy Federal primers again. They won't support the shooters who have supported them in the past.

Use the 205. There is no actual difference between it and the M. They are also available.

Why use anything from Federal if they won't make what we want

I understand what you are saying, but their multi million dollar government contracts are given priority. I'm not going to stop using Lapua brass simply because they won't produce 257 Weatherby brass.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

++1pm the answer, I have seen small and major changes with only a primer change.

Bob

+1. Thats all there really is to the answer. They can change groups dramatically to nothing at all.

OP,
There isnt really a "best" primer because the best primer is what works best with the load you are testing. There are primers people "prefer" and recommend, but that doesn't mean they'll give your rifle the best accuracy. I keep just about every brand of primer and all of their variants on hand for load testing because I have found that a primer is a very critical part to accuracy. A primer change can make a bad group great, make a great group bad, or do nothing noticeable. In my experience, changing, a primer can effect a load just as much as changing powder or bullets.


* I will agree that I have only ever seen minimal difference in accuracy when changing from a Fed 205 to 205M. I have tried it many times in many rifles once an accurate load is developed and it never seems to make much difference at all.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Changing primers can require a change in powder load to stay in tune.
Expect to adjust your powder load for best results.

+1.

I believe a primer change is best tried when having trouble acquiring accuracy from the powder you really want to use. Sometimes a certain primer will not only work better at different charge weights, but also be better with different types of powder all together.

 

[bigedp51]

Primers - Small Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 6BR Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html

Primers - Large Rifle Primer Study
A Match Primer Study in the 30-06 Cartridge
By Germán A. Salazar
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html

Primers: Seating Pressure and Pre-Compression
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/primers-seating-pressure-and-pre.html

 

[Coolhand]

My buddy shoots a 30" Krieger 1:12" .308 in his Palma rifle, I shoot a 30" Schneider 1:12" 5P. We both use Lapua brass , the same powder and projectiles. His best SD, ES and group size is with CCI200 primers, mine is with RWS 5341 primers. We both tried CCI BR primers.......... they were nothing to write home about. :

Mike.

 

[Marksman63]

LARGE RIFLE PRIMER PERFORMANCE BY LAURIE HOLLAND

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?cat=58

 

[Road_Clam]

Me personally do not experiment with different primers at this point in my precision reloading experience (which is strictly amateur status). Introducing another "variable" into my handloading is not the smartest thing to do. I'm still trying to learn the core basics of precision handloading and right now I'm experimenting with the cause and effects of varied seating depths. The experts say when you are attempting to improve an outcome only make single changes and test. This allows for clear concise advancement (or not) of your goal. So if I were to be alternating seating depths and testing multiple primer brands I will be chasing my tail with documenting clear progress or clear failure. As I gain experience from communicating with other handloaders at my gun club I'm beginning to understand that some people really beat themselves up from "overthinking" hangloading precision. One guy in particular will talk my ears off for an hour about precision handloading and he is a lousy shooter and always has techno excuses why he is shooting poorly.
This I can tell you in simple observances. CCI primers fit a tad tighter than Win primers. IMO and at my skill level they perform the same.