primer cratering and boltface pitted

[TackDriv3r]

Worked up some loads in .4 increments with RL 25 and H1000 with Berger 210 VLD's and 212 ELD-X. .020 off the lands and Fed. GM 215 Magnum primer

Used 75.8 to 77.4 grains for the ELD and H1000, no pressure signs
Used 76.0 to 77.6 grains for 210 VLD and H1000, no pressure signs until I got to this load of 76.8 grains when I saw primer pocket leaking and weird looking rings on the fired primers. Is this a sign of high pressure? If so, why did it not show any high pressure when I used 77.4 grains for the 212 ELD? Or is this just bad brass?

I saw the boltface of the bolt and I see pits on the ejector and on the face, what can be done to fix this? Or is it OK to continue to shoot it?

I stopped shooting when I saw the leak, and pulled bullets when I got home. Cleaned the boltface with a brass brush and pits are there. Checked the Nosler manual again , min and max load for the 210 to 212 grain bullets are 75 to 79 grains. What am I doing wrong?

 

[Sniper338]

H1000 is 71gr- 78gr per hodgdons website.

Pressure is definently the issue..

As far as the black leakage out of the primer... did you clean you brass before reloading it? Looks like water that was left in the primer pocket..

 

[Sniper338]

And those primers are cratered, thats past flat primer pressures.... =WAY over pressure

 

[dkhunt14]

I am guessing the 210 VLD has a longer bearing surface. This would raise pressure. You just can't go by bullet weight. Diameter and bearing length has a lot to do with pressure. That why you start low and work up. The Berger manual says 75.5 max for 210 VLD with H1000. Matt

 

['Freak]

Jus’ curious, how do the numbers compare with case head to shoulder datum length, for new unfired brass, fired brass before sizing, and fired brass after resizing? Fergit about the belt.

 

[TackDriv3r]

H1000 is 71gr- 78gr per hodgdons website.

Pressure is definently the issue..

As far as the black leakage out of the primer... did you clean you brass before reloading it? Looks like water that was left in the primer pocket..

Brass is virgin, used steel wool on a bronze brush in a drill to clean necks before loading. No water in primer pockets at all.

 

[dkhunt14]

Brass is virgin, used steel wool on a bronze brush in a drill to clean necks before loading. No water in primer pockets at all.

Another thing is with long bearing the 210 VLD could be in the case too far using up powder capacity. That raises pressure also. That's why for long bullets they throat them out farther. Matt

 

[243winxb]

The Berger jacket may be thicker? http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?49336-Berger-bullet-failure-test

Another interesting result was that while we were shooting the thicker jacketed bullets both barrels produced several blown primers. The .257 barrel produced 14 blown primers and the .256 barrel produced 5. There were no blown primers while shooting the regular jacket bullets.

02-08-2008, 03:22 AM

You have high pressure.


Changed my mind on the bolt face. It needs fixing.

 

[TackDriv3r]

Another thing is with long bearing the 210 VLD could be in the case too far using up powder capacity. That raises pressure also. That's why for long bullets they throat them out farther. Matt

I cannot seat them far out, its a short throat to fit in the magazine.

 

[JohnKielly]

I cannot seat them far out, its a short throat to fit in the magazine.

Then don't use them. They're not suitable for your application.

 

[TackDriv3r]

Then don't use them. They're not suitable for your application.

The ELD-X 212 grain is so long and it shoots just fine under .4 MOA on the first trip to the range , why would the Bergers not be acceptable ?

 

[MagnumManiac]

That is a primer fault, it has a pinhole in the radius edge.
The primer has still got rounded edges. It is NOT caused by excessive pressures in 99% of the time.
This has been an issue with Federal and Winchester primers in the past few years.

Contact the primer manufacturer by email with the lot# and photos of the cases and bolt face, they will repair the damage under warranty. If you are within the listed data in the manual, they will honour the repair.

Cheers.

 

[ericskennard]

I will place my bet on defective primers. I had the same corner blow out with some Fed Match primers. I tried everything. In desperation, I sent some of the fired cases to Federal. They confirmed the primer cup had eroded. Apparently, they are very susceptible to any fumes or heat. When they examined my primers, that is what I was told.

Switch to a different lot or brand of primer and just see what happens.

 

[dkhunt14]

That is a primer fault, it has a pinhole in the radius edge.
The primer has still got rounded edges. It is NOT caused by excessive pressures in 99% of the time.
This has been an issue with Federal and Winchester primers in the past few years.

Contact the primer manufacturer by email with the lot# and photos of the cases and bolt face, they will repair the damage under warranty. If you are within the listed data in the manual, they will honour the repair.

Cheers.

He is almost 1 1 /2grains over Berger max and the bullet seated deep in the case. That didn't help things. Look at the funny shape of the primers on the flat. I never saw primers with a shape like that. Also from the looks of the bolt face, lots of hot loads shot from this gun. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

The ELD-X 212 grain is so long and it shoots just fine under .4 MOA on the first trip to the range , why would the Bergers not be acceptable ?

The Berger is probably a lot more drawn out and the seater is setting them deeper in the case. I don't have a 212 to measure the difference. I know the 210 VLD is a really long bullet. Matt

 

[Sniper338]

Oh hell i didnt see the hole in the primer at first!!!


Your gun aint made for that heavy of bullets it sounds like too!

 

[mr45man]

That is a primer fault, it has a pinhole in the radius edge.
The primer has still got rounded edges.

I use the same primers, and in warm/hot loads the radius
will disappear completely with out blowing the primer.
I guess the primer pockets may have issues. Just because
the brass is new does not mean they are correct.

 

[243winxb]

Berger 210 VLD

The Berger hunting bullet has a thinner jacket then the match bullet. Its on the website.

Thicker jacket=More Pressure.

 

[johnfred1965]

That is a primer fault, it has a pinhole in the radius edge.
The primer has still got rounded edges. It is NOT caused by excessive pressures in 99% of the time.
This has been an issue with Federal and Winchester primers in the past few years.

Contact the primer manufacturer by email with the lot# and photos of the cases and bolt face, they will repair the damage under warranty. If you are within the listed data in the manual, they will honour the repair.

Cheers.

If you can get the primer manufacturer to sign off on a repair, you are an extremely lucky man. There may or may not be a primer fault, but it ultimately failed due to over pressure rounds.

Besides this blowout, have you had any pierced or blanked primers? You have quite a bit of erosion right at the firing pin opening. Probably pushing pressure for a while

 

[Ggmac]

Was your bolt firing pin bushed ? Did you prep your brass by chamfering the primer pockets ? Just asking as the bolt face has some thing about it other than the obvious flame cutting , which doesn't hurt anything but looks , flame cutting that is .