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Pre-range load testing, .408

davidjoe

An experimental gun with experimental ammunition
Gold $$ Contributor
There’s not much load data I could find for a 500 grain .408 Cheytac and a powder I haven’t used, US 869. It’s at the very slow end of the spectrum.

I have this bull barrel .408 Cheytac that needs no brake, as it comes in around 60 pounds. [Edit, see posts below, as discussed, the pictured bullets are NOT for .408 bore, and the discussion following below is a good read with some general applicability to nomenclature and labeling, with this departing the example of .308 Win / 300 Win Mag bullet caliber nomenclature interchangeability.]

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A lot of folks didn’t realize the 50 BMG has had a 750 grain A-Tip available for decades, before small caliber rounds were considered plausible for the effort of their own separate metal tip.

The .408 CheyTac case below is next to a 300 WM loaded with a 250, my Fclass LR choice. Both of these happen to be in Peterson brass.

1675017173852.jpeg


Before I load up enough of these and drive to the range, just to really regret a best guess powder weight choice, I’ll shoot the gun from the hip at a steep angle into the ground.


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Poking around with a stick, the bullet’s lead core becomes a light colored powder in the sand, it’s probably best not to handle that “sand” but the hot jacket is easily recoverable, next to the brass, that in my estimation is coolish, to about right on, at 140 grains.

This process really confirmed its value because my first shot was with 135 grains, and that case head honestly looked unfired, and these bullets aren’t cheap.

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This rifle has a Beast II stock I bought directly from Kelly about 2018, when he brought a MFS road show to Raton, along with a Z-Rail Kestros, and it was primed, only. I sent it back to them much later for the round Bat L and big barrel inletting and Urban Camo paint. The barreled action, with a barrel as big as the action, 2.0”, was put together well after I already had the basic stock.

1675018353390.jpeg

I have often surmised that all it really takes to prompt a project build out, is one of its components. These bullets are just a bit under a 1.0 G1 [Edit: if you have a .416 CheyTac]. I also have a .375 CheyTac that is probably flatter shooting, but this heavy build is made in the nature of an oversized TR rifle.

1675019473157.jpeg

[See below, be cognizant NOT to select this bullet for a .408 bore, as they are for .416 bores, just as they are labeled].
 
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That's quite a rifle you've got there. If you can see it, you ought to be able to hit it with this rig.

If you ever want to try a slower powder, let me know. I have a sizeable pile of WC870. It's just a bit faster than Kingsford MatchLight.
 
How far are we sending this heavy weight cargo. They do like to travel.

So far, only about 7 feet. I don’t think this gun falls into any set of match or range rules, having the upside of a very long, if somewhat dull life. I will look further into ELR possibilities. This bipod does not require a front board, and allows for panning, which is very restricted with Phoenix bipod setups, as we see watching shooters contend with their rifles in the time limited K2M videos.

With these particular bullets, I’ll limit them to my .416 Barrett, as Ray’s point is well taken and all too logical; the cartridges and head stamps are respectively, 10.4 mm and 10.36 mm, for the .416 Barrett and the .408 CheyTac. Likely that’s why I found no load data for this combination. If I had worked up a load and overstressed jackets, I could have found myself blowing up bullets.
 
Follow up question for anyone able to assist here… I zeroed my very good Mitutoyo calipers and set units to millimeters.

I’m getting .10 millimeters for the thickness of a sheet of plain copy paper. Two sheets of paper is the expected .20 millimeters.

According to the head stamps of the 416 Barrett and 408 CheyTac, the bullet diameter is, respectively 10.4 millimeters and 10.36 millimeters.

That would imply that a sheet of copy paper is 2.5 times as thick as the difference between the two bullet diameters. My question would be whether this is correct, the calibers are less than 1/2 a sheet of paper’s thickness apart, and it is not a naming convention we use, like .357 magnum and the use of .38 specials.

I only have .416 bullets to measure, and the Hornady is spot on .4160 and a CE 452 solid is .4155 on the drive band. I don’t have any labeled .408’s to measure.

If it is a real diameter distinction, and I presume right now that it is, then is a bit less than half a sheet of paper’s thickness ok on a lead core bullet and a jacket for a bullet this big?

1675096855378.jpeg
 
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So far, only about 7 feet. I don’t think this gun falls into any set of match or range rules, having the upside of a very long, if somewhat dull life. I will look further into ELR possibilities. This bipod does not require a front board, and allows for panning, which is very restricted with Phoenix bipod setups, as we see watching shooters contend with their rifles in the time limited K2M videos.

With these particular bullets, I’ll limit them to my .416 Barrett, as Ray’s point is well taken and all too logical; the cartridges and head stamps are respectively, 10.4 mm and 10.36 mm, for the .416 Barrett and the .408 CheyTac. Likely that’s why I found no load data for this combination. If I had worked up a load and overstressed jackets, I could have found myself blowing up bullets.
David, the diameter of a .416 bullet is actually 10.5664 mm (true .416 dia.) and .408s are 10.37 mm. The difference is indeed .008". That difference is greater than the difference between a .270 and a 7mm.
 
Davidjoe, keep in mind that the bore diameter and groove diameter are both confusingly used to name things. Then add in the metric conversions...

They are indeed separate calibers. CEB makes both .408 and .416 bullets, Krieger barrels makes both 401x.408 barrels and .408x416 barrels.

SAAMI isn't much help on this, but if you look at the Cartridge 'G1' diameter on the two attached prints you can see the difference in bullet diameter spec. Likewise the Chamber 'F' & 'Z' for the differences in
bore and groove specs.
 

Attachments

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Fantastic information, guys. It makes me wonder why the industry would not have long ago settled on what measurement was being identified, to ensure that numbers such as “10.4 and 10.36” millimeters have any meaning at all. Peterson put 10.36 on their head stamp and Barrett put 10.4 on their packaging. The bullets are further apart than this, and in my opinion, only the bullets should be referenced, for the sake of uniformity.

About the widest bore measurement I can get on my calipers, gingerly at the muzzle, is .4010” so I do believe this is properly inscribed .408 CheyTac, I have seen references to .416 CheyTacs online.
 
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Helluva Rifle. What's the barrel length ? Looks short.

It’s a longish barrel, not crazy, about 33 or 34 from the receiver, but with a long tenon, and the proportions of the barrel and action can be deceptive, both are 2 inches, and the action is a very long one.


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1675103429843.jpeg


I overestimated its weight. If comes in under 50 by a pound which means it may be viable in some games.
 
David, the diameter of a .416 bullet is actually 10.5664 mm (true .416 dia.) and .408s are 10.37 mm. The difference is indeed .008". That difference is greater than the difference between a .270 and a 7mm.
I can’t figure out why Barrett would use “10.4”. 10.56 or 10.6, maybe even 10.5 but not a number much closer to a different, existing bullet, than the one it put in the shell. .284 would be 7mm, .014” away from 270, which is a little better than what is going on here.
 
I can’t figure out why Barrett would use “10.4”. 10.56 or 10.6, maybe even 10.5 but not a number much closer to a different, existing bullet, than the one it put in the shell. .284 would be 7mm, .014” away from 270, which is a little better than what is going on here.
Ah, but the .270 measures .277" . . .
 
It’s a longish barrel, not crazy, about 33 or 34 from the receiver, but with a long tenon, and the proportions of the barrel and action can be deceptive, both are 2 inches, and the action is a very long one.

I overestimated its weight. If comes in under 50 by a pound which means it may be viable in some games.
That is a LOT of steel. And you shot it from the hip. Dang!
 
My 1st 408 build back in 2005 or so weight in at 22lbs with scope and that thing was a beast to shoot even with the 419 PRL solids.between that and a 510/408 wildcat build they destroyed my right shoulder and can't seem to get rid of the flinch . great cartridge and very accurate.
Powder vht-570
 
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