Prairie Dog Cartridge

[Lee Whitsel]

I looked at best places to shot dogs in the west it brought up a map of this huge part of the west and shows the good places and the o.k. areas. It's amazing how much of an area these dogs cover. and remember there where a whole lot more of them I think in the covered wagon days ....

CALL THE FEED MILLS IN THE AREA AND ASK WHAT RANCHERS HAVE L0TS 0F D0GS AND WILL ALL0W SH00TERS N THEY CAN GIVE NAMES AND NUMBERS T0 HELP FIND A PLACE>

 

[spaniel]

F0R M0RE INF0 G0ING WEST T0 SH00T D0GS AND G0PHERS. D0NT TELL A RANCHER Y0UR FR0M A BIG CITY. JUST SAY I SH00t H0GS IN SAY VIRGINIA AND LEAVE IT AT THAT. THEY D0NT LIKE BIG CITY PE0PLE NEITHER D0 I. NEVER DRIVE 0F R0ADS WHEN ITS WET 0UT HERE ITS CALLED MUCK AND Y0U'LL BURY Y0UR RIG UP T THE AXLE RIGHT N0W N0 J0KE. L0TS 0F WIND HERE PUT IT T Y0UR BACK. R0LLY HILLS ARE GREAT SET UP0N T0P AND SH00T D0WN S0 N0 BULLETS FLYING 0F ASTRAY INT0 C0WS 0R BUILDINGS. LATER MAY AND JUNE PRIME TIME T0 BE HERE. S0ME STATES CHARGE N0THING T0 SH00T THEM 0THERS A SMALL FEE. D0NT G0 AND EVEN THINK AB0UT SH00TING 0N INDIAN TRIBAL GR0UNDS. THEY HATE WHITE PE0PLE AND WILL SCREW Y0U 0VER S0 QUICK. REMEMBER AMM0 C0STS ARE VERY HIGH AND A 223 IS THE CHEAPEST THING Y0U CAN SH00T. D0GS and G0PHERS GET A DIEASE AND DIE 0F AT TIMES. A PLAGE CAN M0VE THREW AND KILL THEM ALL 0F AND N0THING T0 SH00T WHERE A FEW YEARS BEF0RE IT WAS A H0T SP0T. ALWAYS HAVE M0RE THAN 0NE PLACE T0 SH00T. * YEARS AG0 I USE T0 DRIVE 0VER T0 MILES CITY, MT. AND 1 YEAR LATER PLAGUE WENT THREW AND KILLED THEM ALL 0F. NEW PLACES ARE ALWAYS A G00D IDEA. AN0THER FUN THING IS G0 SET UP 0 A RANCH 0N THE B0RDER OF SAY N0RTH DAK0TA AND S0UTH AND SET 0N THE LINE AND SH00T B0TH STATES AT THE SAME TIME. JUST BUY THE C0RRECT TAG AND G0 D0 IT F0R REAL EXCITING DAYS 0F SH00TING. D0NT F0RGET T0 TAKE SEVERAL GUNS Y0UR BARRELS WILL HEAT UP S0 FAST 0UT HERE FR0M S0 MUCH SH00TING.

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post, and is entirely unconstructive, so thanks for nothing??

 

[tstowater]

Back to the OP, I would look at building both a 223 and a 20P. You are going to start with the same brass and the 20P is just going to be a neck down. The 223 is going to be cheaper to shoot because of cheaper bullet options than the 20 caliber bullets. Barrel twist is going to be important depending on what bullets you would plan to shoot. My guess is that you will ultimately like the 20P better due to better performance. My FIL is primarily a 223 for Pdogs because easy and cheap to load. He generally is shooting 50 grain SP because of price.

Personally, if I was starting from scratch today, I would be hard pressed to not build a pair of 20P bolt guns. I would take them, a 17HMR and a bigger gun and would be set for Pdogs. The bigger gun would be personal preference, but I would likely pick a 220 Swift, or a pair. Heat will be your enemy and those barrels are going to get hot. While not on your radar, a 20VT would be a great choice to look at. You can get brass or roll your own. Less powder and not near the barrel warm up.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I honestly can't see any advantage of a 20 Practical over a 223 if you are going to shoot 40ish grain bullets.

 

[Rich S]

I use a 223s and 204. I think either the 223 or 20 practical are good choices. In the 223s I use 50 and 55 grn bullets. 39grn for the 204. A low recoil heavier gun will allow seeing hits in the scope. That is important also for seeing misses for follow up shots. I like the Wylde chamber or something similar for the 223. The freebore allows shooting the light bullets up to 80 grns. For the 20 cal a low or zero freebore. Starline 223 brass is hard to beat for price and quality. I find it to be a high quality and consistent brass. Personally I’d avoid the onc fired brass. Not much cheaper and not nearly as consistent.

For scopes use some decent glass. The 8x32 Sightron SIII is a decent economical choice.

 

[chuckshooter]

I honestly can't see any advantage of a 20 Practical over a 223 if you are going to shoot 40ish grain bullets.

If I have both to chose from and I do. I would choose the 20p every time. If it's which one to buy/build for a 1st. Shoot . It,s the 223.

 

[209jones]

I tend to keep my shots under 300yds. Most of the places I've hunted were maybe a section of land, and then houses on the next section in one direction or another, so, I was a bit cautious about ricochets, and that also made me fussy about bullet choices, wanted them to blow up good on contact or seriously deform at least. Just me, I'm cautious that way. I can get 3200 easily out of my 218Bee with 40gr pills, 35 or 3600+( forget exactly) out of the 223. I started out with 22-250 and 50gr in mid 80's. Had a spot for 3-4 yrs where I could go for about 6 wks in spring, 4-600 rds on a weekend plus a brick of 22 shells. I built the Bee because I wanted to cut powder usage, which I did, by 2/3's, 38gr to 12-13gr. the 223 was an impulse buy, Browning 1885, it was on sale, Bee was being built at the time, I use it more for cruising for yotes. One 22-250 was in a #1, other was in an 1885. Bee is on a Stevens 044-1/2. Also ran the odd batch of cast bullets in all 3 of them over the years, had some fun with them too.
Nothing quite like watching a gopher rise thru the recoil and explode at 6" to a foot off the ground.

 

[urbanrifleman]

If I have both to chose from and I do. I would choose the 20p every time. If it's which one to buy/build for a 1st. Shoot . It,s the 223.

Honest question.

What's the difference? Shooting the same weight bullet with nearly the same bc with the same bullet construction, at basically the same velocity. Recoil would be the same. I'm not sure I get it. But I would like to be educated on this.

 

[chuckshooter]

Honest question.

What's the difference? Shooting the same weight bullet with nearly the same bc with the same bullet construction, at basically the same velocity. Recoil would be the same. I'm not sure I get it. But I would like to be educated on this.

I not sure I can give you any factual based information, I used to shoot 40 grain in a 223 30 years ago, and never liked the performance. So I can only compare 50 grain bullets in a 223 to 40 grain bullets in a 20 practical/tactical or even 32 grain bullets which are my favorite. To me it feels like less recoil. Then there's something about the case design, like the 6br. Fatter case compared to bullet diameter. It just seems like the 223 case benefits from having a smaller diameter bullet. Like the performance improves. Again I have no factual data to back it up. My background is a high volume shooter, besides accuracy, which everyone desires, I guess the second most important thing is, I need to see the bullet impact. too much recoil is not my friend. Then the next thing would be heat, which I've learned to control with the wet towel on the barrel method. You just can't avoid it if you're going to shoot in the summer months. I don't really care about drop, windrift, BC, if I can see the bullet hit, chances are the next shot is going to be a kill.

There's that old saying, put your money where your mouth is. And I'm not trying to be a smart-ass. I used to have four 223 varmint rifles, now I have one, and five 20 practical/tactical. I just like them that much better.

 

[Lefty2506]

Step up to a 22ARC, and it surpasses all of the above with the 62gr eld-vt.

What are you getting out of your 22 ARC? I've thought about one for quite a while, but Hornaday's load data makes it look like it's only getting about 100 fps more than what I get out of my 223 loads which makes me think I'd be just as well off with a 223AI.

 

[redrockranger]

22 BR Norma. Does it well.

 

[Oklahoma Jim]

I'm finding the 20 Sploder (20-223AI) a lot of fun and easy to use. Brad at Urban Rifleman did the barrel and it really shoots well. I haven't had a chance to pop any P-dogs with it yet, but I'm sure it will be quite a rig.

 

[Websurfer]

223 Rem with 50 gr v-max is spectacular on prairie dogs. For longer shots, a 60 grain HP varmint bullet works just fine.

 

[Lefty2506]

I'm finding the 20 Sploder (20-223AI) a lot of fun and easy to use. Brad at Urban Rifleman did the barrel and it really shoots well. I haven't had a chance to pop any P-dogs with it yet, but I'm sure it will be quite a rig.

Personally, I think the 20 Sploder (and 223 AI for that matter) would be an ideal PD cartridge. It would have just enough additional case volume to offer usable gains over a standard 223/5.56 case without burning so much powder that you barrel life becomes an issue. I think that the velocities Hornady lists for the 22 ARC gas loads are achievable (or VERY close to it) with a 223 AI which makes it an optimal case for ARs. I'm not sure if any of that changes when you drop the neck down to a 20 cal, but I would suspect that it would be a similar comparison to the 223 vs 20 Practical. The 20 Sploder makes me wonder why the 20 Tactical still exists, or was even developed to begin with. To me the natural thing to do is to neck down a 223 case to make a 20 Practical, and then blow it out to make an AI for a bump in performance. Going any other route seems like a lot more work for less performance. Then again, I'm very new to the 20s so I may be way off base.

 

[L.Sherm]

You really can't go wrong on any of the 20VT and 20 cals that are off the 223 case for high volume shooting it really boils down to which one scratchs the itch.

 

[450BM]

Your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post, and is entirely unconstructive, so thanks for nothing??

I thought the post was full of good information for someone who is planning a prairie dog shoot and not familiar with how things work in the those areas. I keep saying I’m going to go on one of these shoots someday and I’m going to be seeking Lee’s advice when I do.

 

[450BM]

You guys are really making me want a 20 practical! I might have to get a heavy barrel for my Stag 6L…

 

[urbanrifleman]

Personally, I think the 20 Sploder (and 223 AI for that matter) would be an ideal PD cartridge. It would have just enough additional case volume to offer usable gains over a standard 223/5.56 case without burning so much powder that you barrel life becomes an issue. I think that the velocities Hornady lists for the 22 ARC gas loads are achievable (or VERY close to it) with a 223 AI which makes it an optimal case for ARs. I'm not sure if any of that changes when you drop the neck down to a 20 cal, but I would suspect that it would be a similar comparison to the 223 vs 20 Practical. The 20 Sploder makes me wonder why the 20 Tactical still exists, or was even developed to begin with. To me the natural thing to do is to neck down a 223 case to make a 20 Practical, and then blow it out to make an AI for a bump in performance. Going any other route seems like a lot more work for less performance. Then again, I'm very new to the 20s so I may be way off base.

You're not.

20 Practical and 20 Sploder, for 223 bolt face, is all you need.

 

[Lefty2506]

You're not.

20 Practical and 20 Sploder, for 223 bolt face, is all you need.

You're not supposed to like the 20 Practical....

 

[Lefty2506]

You guys are really making me want a 20 practical! I might have to get a heavy barrel for my Stag 6L…

Honestly, if you're going with a bolt gun, I'd lean more towards the Sploder since the price is the same. Same (inexpensive) parent brass and runs the same projectiles, so might as well have the extra speed.