Powder Throwers

[StephenPerry]

Nathaniel
I have the same grey Lyman 55 measure. Difference is mine has a Culver drum. Like I said earlier I bought mine back at Kelbly's in 1977. I also have 2 orange 55's one standard one with Jones drum. My first orange model was purchased in 1962. Works good with long stick powders.
The Lyman 55 was originally an Ideal design going back into the 1880's. The Ideal No 5 is the forerunner of the Lyman 55, Lyman having bought the Ideal Co later. The No 5 was the oldest powder thrower on the market circa 1880's. John Barlow founded the Ideal Manufacturing Co in the late 1880's. Ideal came out later with a No. 5 with micrometer adjustments. The original 19th century No.5 had a metal powder reservoir. Everything else is the same on the Lyman 55. What BR guys have done is add a conversion that allows a pill bottle for more powder.
What I haven't heard much of yet is the Saeco thrower and the operation of the RCBS Uniflow. This is an interesting Thread but few respond back. The entire 6mmBR is more a reading Web than a Posting Web. I would like to break the mold and get more lively discussions going. Like I said when I first got here 'Where's the Beef'.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Varget
Any Varget guys out there. What powder throwers do you use for Varget. Don't need any since I have alot of 4895 but if Hodgdon makes it I will use some. Looks like it will do well for my .223 & 22-250. How does the stuff meter in your thrower. Curious minds want to know.
Stephen Perry

 

[memilanuk]

Last winter I went thru and threw 50 charges each thru my Redding BR-30,tricked out w/ full Sinclair upgrade kit), Lee PPM, and Dillon APM on a 550. Unfortunately the notes got lost in a move this spring, so I'm going by what little stuck to my grey matter...

IIRC, none threw Varget very well. *Usually* +/- 0.2gr or less, but it was that occasional 0.5-0.6gr one that worried me. On the Lee and the Dillon, I really couldn't tell which ones those were. On the Redding, if I felt it hang up, usually that charge would be low, and the next couple would be high. In actual practice,loading .308 Win) I've thrown charges for use at extended distance,NRA Prone matches, not BR) and as long as I toss back the ones that don't feel right everything seems to work out. Doesn't really satisfy that Type 'A' tendency, though...

 

[StephenPerry]

Milanuk
I don't have any Varget but reading about it I feel is close to the grain size of H322 maybe a slight larger grain. Either way you could less cutting and more consistent throws with Lyman 55. The Lyman would allow you to open the deep cavity and have a minimum cut. each shooting discipline puts a different emphasis on powder loads. You can get into that 1/10 range with the correct thrower. Never got beat by a powder thrower but close needs to be real close in BR competition. I have been throwing powder every night with my Bruno since I bought it this month. I want that drop tube and bottles ready to go when I go back to Phoenix next weekend for the IBS HB Shoot.
Stephen Perry

 

[AndyW]

I have a Lyman 55 that I use for Varget. I weigh every charge that I throw. I would say that my Lyman has maybe a .2 grain window that it floats around, one out of 15 throws will be .5 grain or greater out. I do not shoot BR, or any discpline for that matter but the weighing takes my excuses away when I am not shooting good on the calm days out past 500 yards. Definately not consistent enough for me not to weigh each throw. The Lyman 55 does not like the bigger sticks like Retumbo. Any of you throw Retumbo with your Redding? Thinking of purchasing a Redding after reading all of the positive reviews on this thread.

Great thread!

 

[Cheechako]

Three of the best powder throwers I have ever used for charging hunting loads were the RCBS with the micrometer insert, the cheap Lee plastic thrower, and the old Herter No. 40. The Herter especially, with it's long skinny chamber, was a PITA to set but once you had it adjusted it would throw powders like the long grained 4831 with great accuracy.

I now use a Harrels BR thrower for everything including long range. For charges that exceed the capacity of the chamber I simply throw two or three equal charges. As long as you can count to three and chew gum at the same time you shouldn't have a problem with over or under charges.

BTW, between 1910 and 1916 Ideal was owned by the Marlin Firearms Co. and made Ideal tools. I have both a No 5 measure and a No 6 Tong Tool so marked.

Ray

 

[StephenPerry]

Hey Andy
Thanks for reporting on your Lyman 55 measure. Since I load alot of 133 for my PPC I can always spot a throw not right I dump it and throw it again. Someday I will buy some Varget and give it a try probably in my .223 and 22-250. I have always been a big fan of Hodgdon powders. Some of my first powders were Hodgdon. I bought 4831 for $1.95 a lb, still have some.
There has been alot of info in this Powder Thrower Thread. Glad to work with you guys on this. I am learning right along side you guys.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Ray
Nice Post. Good to hear you do have a No 5, if you come to Phoenix next week can you bring it. I woulld like to see it and maybe get a picture. If you don't have the Sharpe reloading book I'll bring it if you would like to see it.
Stephen Perry

 

[Cheechako]

Stephen

I have the Sharpe book and also one of his other efforts, THE RIFLE IN AMERICA.

The Ideal thrower is almost impossible to photograph because it is all black and none of the markings or details show up very well. I did find a photo of an Ideal and a Marlim side by side, the Marlin on the left.

Unfortunately, I will probably not be shooting until the Cactus, at best. My wife is going through some tough times, medically, and I have to devote most of my time to her and travelling back and forth to doctors.

Ray

 

[Forum Boss]

Here another real world observation. I have two RCBS Uniflows--make that three if you count the unit installed on the top of my RCBS 2000 progressive press.

The fit of the rotor to the frame is different on each, the behavior is different on each. Two have a blued steel rotor, while the third seems to have an aluminum or zinc-plated,?) rotor. One meters Varget reasonably well, jamming on a kernel maybe only once in 20 throws. I weigh all my charges so I can say the measure is normally spot on. But even when everything feels "perfectly right" it can be 0.2 grains over.

The unit on my progressive has the tightest tolerances and it will throw N135 perfectly--I mean within a couple kernels 18 out of 20 throws. But with something like IMR 4198 it essentially won't work at all. It will lock up solid as the long extruded kernels "bridge" between rotor and frame.

I've also thrown a lot of Varget and H4350 Charges on A Redding. It was smoother than the Uniflow, but it could still be off by as much as 0.3 grains even when everything "felt" perfect.

My conclusion is, if you're shooting past 300m, you need to weigh your charges, whatever measure you use. And unit to unit production variances are sufficiently great that we probably can't say, with any degree of certainty, that one mass-market manual powder measure is better than another. One would want a half-dozen samples of each to really do some testing.

I am interested in trying the Lee which is supposed to work better for long extruded powders. Before I bought a Lee though, I would get a ChargeMaster. RCBS promised to send us one of the current generation... I should remind them to do so.

 

[StephenPerry]

Moderator
Like those RCBS thowers but as you say the machining can be different in some. After you bend RCBS ear about the Chargemaster remind Jackie he owes you a report. Saw him today causing trouble on the other guys board about his 30 BR tests. Don't know why he pumps those Score guys up he won't dump his PPC unless he wants to be out of the Texas trophies. One reporters opinion.
Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Thanks for the pics Ray the Marlin looks the same as the Ideal from the shorts down just as the Lyman 55 does. Most of my old Lyman posters say Ideal in the corner. Got any idea when Lyman bought Ideal. Ideal also had a good cast bullet line too as you know.
Stephen Perry

 

[Cheechako]

Stephen

I believe that Lyman Gunsight Corp purchased the Ideal tool line from Marlin in 1916. I'm not sure who owns it today. Probably some big foreign conglomerate.

It's interesting that some of today's top Benchrest shooters are using those old nutcracker tools for loading. And there is a very big collector market for any of the old Lyman tools, some of the tong tools and die sets selling for hundreds of dollars. Don't you wish you had all of the old stuff you started out with? I know I do. I think I still have one of the orange throwers around here somewhere. And a gray one too, I think.

Ray

 

[StephenPerry]

Ray do you know anything about Belding & Mull throwers. I read what Sharpe said in his book. From what I remember they were popular with some BR guys back before I started in 1977.
Stephen Perry

 

[Cheechako]

Stephen

Many moons ago when I was starting to do my own loading, my brother and I shared one of the B&M powder measures. As I remember it was a very accurate thrower. It was unique for its day in that the main powder hopper was not connected directly to the measuring chamber. The powder was fed from the main hopper into a secondary chamber that slid back and forth horizontally and from there into an adjustable measuring tube. This ensured that the weight of the powder in the hopper had no effect on the measuring.,I suppose the baffles in todays throwers do the same thing, more or less.) The downsides of the B&M was that the secondary chamber was spring loaded and you had to clamp the thrower VERY tightly to a bench to keep the whole thing from moving when you operated it. Also, the measuring tube was a seperate piece and you had to remove it for each charge and pour the powder through a funnel into the case. Very slow.

Ray

 

[Aussie_bob]

Hodgdon Powder is good powder coz as far as i know most of it is made by Australian Defence Industries.,ADI)
Varget is Ar2208, H4831sc is AR2213sc, AR2209 is H4350, And Benchmark is called BM2 here. Good Aussie powders.

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
Boy this Powder Throwing Thread has been beat up, thrown down, purged several times, and relished by many. Reminds me of my wrestling jock strap I put on and took off everyday born to fight another day, kinda like me.
Now I want to know about the conversions to existing powder throwers that some of you Yutes have come up with. I have a Culver, a Nagy, and a Bruno the rest of my throwers are stock. What you got and how do they go. A little sand paper here a little bushing there, did they work? Any Hensler units out there?
Give this Thread another look. You won't be sorry.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[BJung]

I'm not a benchrest shooter but a recreational shooter. I use an RCBS thrower with the bent sheet metal in the tube and am wondering if my Redding thrower or RCBS micrometer adjustment screw ( sorry for poor choice of terms ) is better. If I want a more accurate load, I tend to throw my weight low and use my trickler to raise the pointer, stopping just when it is balanced. Is there a list for powder throwers by grade. I know Harrels is on the top. Is it because you can throw more consistent loads before refilling the powder tube?

 

[Firearmsunlimited]

Here is a DYI upgrade for the Lyman 55. I improved accuracy and repeatability for me. It takes a minute or two for the attachment to download.

 

[rogina]

I'm not a benchrest shooter but a recreational shooter. I use an RCBS thrower with the bent sheet metal in the tube and am wondering if my Redding thrower or RCBS micrometer adjustment screw ( sorry for poor choice of terms ) is better. If I want a more accurate load, I tend to throw my weight low and use my trickler to raise the pointer, stopping just when it is balanced. Is there a list for powder throwers by grade. I know Harrels is on the top. Is it because you can throw more consistent loads before refilling the powder tube?

Here is my method for using the rcbs. I use the pistol chamber for the ppc, br, 223and tac 20. Two taps at top of stroke and 2 taps at the bottom will work great and be sure all of the powder is out of the measure. Keep the baffle in the bottom one-third of tube. Good luck.